It isn't Racist to...

[evensaul]

It isn't racist to demand a secure border, allowing entry only to those legally authorized to enter.

It isn't racist to prohibit immigration to the US by Muslims, because Islam is not a race.

It isn't racist to want to preserve western culture, because culture is not race specific.

It isn't racist to want to associate only with others of the same religion and culture.

It isn't racist to require voters to show proof of identity and eligibility to vote.

It isn't racist to identify a criminal's citizenship status or race along with other identifiers such as name, sex, age, and address.

[CowboyX]

It isn't racist to demand a secure border, allowing entry only to those legally authorized to enter.

It is when you only speak about one section of an enormous border that happens to border a brown people country. Then shown an immigrant caravan interspersed with non-related people jumping over the wall.

---------- Post added at 10:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:06 PM ----------

It isn't racist to prohibit immigration to the US by Muslims, because Islam is not a race.

It is when you don't prohibit immigration only by religion but on country of origin and you don't include all of the countries, especially not where the "good ones" are.

---------- Post added at 10:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:07 PM ----------

It isn't racist to want to associate only with others of the same religion and culture.

It is when it's unconstitutional.

---------- Post added at 10:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:08 PM ----------

It isn't racist to require voters to show proof of identity and eligibility to vote.

It is when such requirements provide a disproportionate hardship on different groups - poll taxes and tests were similarly used.

[Sigfried]

It isn't racist to demand a secure border, allowing entry only to those legally authorized to enter.

True, but it is if your argument is that they are inherently bad people, rapists, murderers, etc... only when they aren't whites.

It isn't racist to prohibit immigration to the US by Muslims, because Islam is not a race.

True, it is religious bigotry instead.

It isn't racist to want to preserve western culture, because culture is not race specific.

It is if you consider western culture to be white culture as many who want to "preserve western culture" do. When prohibitions against race mixing and birth rates are part of the way you preserve it, then it's racist.

It isn't racist to want to associate only with others of the same religion and culture.

Again, that's cultural or religious bigotry. Its just as bad as carcism really.

It isn't racist to require voters to show proof of identity and eligibility to vote.

Unless you are using it to specifically target minorities. Then it's racist. Otherwise, no.

It isn't racist to identify a criminal's citizenship status or race along with other identifiers such as name, sex, age, and address.

It is if you only ask it of non-white people.

[evensaul]

The two of you conflate racism and discrimination, which has been a favorite tactic of the Left over the past few years. Discrimination is not inherently racist. They are not the same.

Do a google search on Racism Definition, and this is the first result:

rac·ism
/ˈrāˌsizəm/
noun

prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
"a program to combat racism"
synonyms: racial discrimination, racialism, racial prejudice, xenophobia, chauvinism, bigotry, casteism
"Aborigines are the main victims of racism in Australia"
the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
noun: racism
"theories of racism"

Note that discrimination is only racism if it is based on the belief that one's own race is superior or others inferior.

If you look around for other sources you may find a bogus definition that makes all racial discrimination equal to racism, because the Left has worked very hard to paint any discrimination it doesn't like as racism. This social and political propaganda has worked with the uneducated, illiterate, ignorant and feeble-minded masses. But it isn't going to fly in this thread.

Furthermore, you imply that each of the positions I stated in the op are inherently discriminatory. They are not. They are based on principles applied where needed, such as security concerns on the southern border. It is not discriminatory to address border security issues where they exist, and not take action on parts of the border that do not have large numbers of illegal crossings. If there is no problem with illegal entry on the northern border, it is not racially discriminatory to increase security on the southern border where there are obvious problems.

---------- Post added at 06:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:39 AM ----------

Again, that's cultural or religious bigotry.

Not all cultures and religions are created equal. Some are decidedly inferior and dangerous, so intolerance toward them is warranted.

[CowboyX]

Not all cultures and religions are created equal. Some are decidedly inferior and dangerous, so intolerance toward them is warranted.

Who judges? Show your calculus.

---------- Post added at 11:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:42 AM ----------

Note that discrimination is only racism if it is based on the belief that one's own race is superior or others inferior.

How do we tell? Is there another reason you don't want black people to vote?

[MindTrap028]

How do we tell? Is there another reason you don't want black people to vote?

That is a red-herring and a straw-man.
No one said they don't want black people to vote.
What was forwarded is that it isn't racist to require and ID to vote, because requiring and ID is not racist.
Just like requiring and ID to purchase Alcohol is not a racist attack on Black people.

[Someguy]

It isn't racist to demand a secure border, allowing entry only to those legally authorized to enter.

It isn't racist to prohibit immigration to the US by Muslims, because Islam is not a race.

It isn't racist to want to preserve western culture, because culture is not race specific.

It isn't racist to want to associate only with others of the same religion and culture.

It isn't racist to require voters to show proof of identity and eligibility to vote.

It isn't racist to identify a criminal's citizenship status or race along with other identifiers such as name, sex, age, and address.

Indeed. Leftist like to use that term as a club to silence opposition because, generally, they arent capable of arguing their positions logically. ( due to their positions not being logical to begin with). We have to reject their attacks, as you are doing, and continue the course of allowing logic and reason to guide our actions.

[CowboyX]

No one said they don't want black people to vote.

That ignores a lot of facts and history including our own constitution.

---------- Post added at 06:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:36 PM ----------

What was forwarded is that it isn't racist to require and ID to vote, because requiring and ID is not racist.

When it is done to solve a non-existent problem and then causes hardship primarily for minorities its is racist.

---------- Post added at 06:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:38 PM ----------

Indeed. Leftist like to use that term as a club to silence opposition because, generally, they arent capable of arguing their positions logically. ( due to their positions not being logical to begin with). We have to reject their attacks, as you are doing, and continue the course of allowing logic and reason to guide our actions.

That's one of the best non-answers I've seen in a long time. Bravo.

[MindTrap028]

@ cowboy.. yea, because that part of history is not what is being addressed. No one TODAY is arguing that black people shouldn't vote. No one is seeking that end.

[Belthazor]

When it is done to solve a non-existent problem and then causes hardship primarily for minorities its is racist.[COLOR="Silver"]

There are reasons to require ID to cast a vote. How else would you know if some one voted twice for instance?

In what ways are minorities prevented from acquiring a valid ID?

[MindTrap028]

In what ways are minorities prevented from acquiring a valid ID?

My local DMV requires a blood test, apparently they are on that "One Drop" standard.
It's a bit strict, having a black relative 10 generations ago disqualifies you.
But you know that racist south... they so funny like that.

[CowboyX]

@ cowboy.. yea, because that part of history is not what is being addressed. No one TODAY is arguing that black people shouldn't vote. No one is seeking that end.

You sure?

---------- Post added at 12:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:03 PM ----------

There are reasons to require ID to cast a vote. How else would you know if some one voted twice for instance?

Like under a different name? That would be voter fraud.

---------- Post added at 12:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:06 PM ----------

In what ways are minorities prevented from acquiring a valid ID?

They're not. But there are hardships, like what was done to the Native Americans who didn't have street addresses.

[MindTrap028]

@ cowboy.. you are free to quote a congressman or senator that has said they are seeking to keep blacks from voting.
But yea.. I am sure.

The current socially acceptable way to disenfranchise voters is through gerrymandering. Which is a problem for both parties and other than laying a square grid on a map.. I have no clue how to personally solve.

[Belthazor]

Like under a different name? That would be voter fraud.[COLOR="Silver"]

Yes, that could be an issue. The point is if there is no id required, you don't know if the person is eligible to vote?

---------- Post added at 06:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:25 PM ----------

They're not. But there are hardships, like what was done to the Native Americans who didn't have street addresses.

Agreed, things were done in the past that were terrible.
Unless this is currently the case though it doesn't apply to this Op.

Since you have no other issues apparently, I assume other minorities are not being prevented from getting a valid ID.

[CowboyX]

Yes, that could be an issue. The point is if there is no id required, you don't know if the person is eligible to vote?[COLOR="Silver"]

That's why they're registered.

---------- Post added at 10:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:40 PM ----------

Agreed, things were done in the past that were terrible.
Unless this is currently the case though it doesn't apply to this Op.

It just happened, this election.

---------- Post added at 10:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:41 PM ----------

@ cowboy.. you are free to quote a congressman or senator that has said they are seeking to keep blacks from voting.

Moving the goals posts, you said "no one"

---------- Post added at 10:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:42 PM ----------

The current socially acceptable way to disenfranchise voters is through gerrymandering. Which is a problem for both parties and other than laying a square grid on a map.

Agreed. Many more districts would be one way.

[Sigfried]

Not all cultures and religions are created equal. Some are decidedly inferior and dangerous, so intolerance toward them is warranted.

That's what all bigots will tell you, that its because they are right, they really are superior to other people and thus those people aren't as deserving of rights and privileges as they are. That is exactly what Hitler said to justify exterminating the Jews, and exactly what the white plantation owners said to justify owning black people. So you "excuse" is really just an admission that you are a biggot.

[evensaul]

Sig, you're an intelligent and thoughtful guy. Really. But that is probably the worst post you've ever made on ODN.

First, you conflate culture with individuals. They are not the same. One can respect the equality of every man, but recognize that the cultures they live in are unequal. Some cultures are clearly inferior to others.

Second, you're trying to argue that the labeling of any culture as inferior is unacceptable by pointing to a historical culture you abhor! The culture Hitler created in the Third Reich, as you pointed out, is not equal to other cultures: https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/conte...reich-overview

Third, you are engaging in a culture war right here, with your post, taking a position deep in the heart of PC modern culture against my position in support of a cultural view that you oppose.

And finally, as ODN winds down, after you've been debating here ten years, you have to resort to Reductio ad Hitlerim fallacy? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum

[Belthazor]

That's why they're registered.[COLOR="Silver"]

How would you know if a given person voted twice if all that was needed was registration?.

---------- Post added at 08:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:05 AM ----------

It just happened, this election.[COLOR="Silver"]

Well as long as you say so

Do you have any examples or support for that comment or is this just an opinion kind thing?

[MindTrap028]

@ cowboy.. not moving goal posts the context is about Mai stream political movements. Like those calling for voter ID's. Find one of them and you may have a point. Just finding some backwater nobody doesn't support your point.

Also. Did we just agree on gerrymandering? Because of all the political dirty tricks I hate that one like.. top 3. It perverts the process so that the elected choose who they want to represent. When our system really is intended to be the other way. I also think it leads to these kinda life long appointments. Which is really dangerous to the people.

[CowboyX]

How would you know if a given person voted twice if all that was needed was registration?.[COLOR="Silver"]

Because their name would be down twice or, as my town does it, there'd be a little 'X' in the box next to your name when you came in to vote again...uh-oh time to investigate.

---------- Post added at 12:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:15 PM ----------

Well as long as you say so

Do you have any examples or support for that comment or is this just an opinion kind thing?

I wouldn't suppose this was reported on Fox News:

"3. Restrictive election laws

A number of election laws have effects on people’s ability to participate in elections. That played out this last week when the Supreme Court approved voter identification laws in North Dakota, requiring a street address, not a P.O. box, be displayed on a voter’s ID. But tribal IDs don’t always include addresses, and many tribal citizens, who may live in remote areas with no mail service or have impermanent living situations, use P.O. boxes instead of permanent addresses."

---------- Post added at 12:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:18 PM ----------

@ cowboy.. not moving goal posts the context is about Mai stream political movements. Like those calling for voter ID's. Find one of them and you may have a point. Just finding some backwater nobody doesn't support your point.

My response thus far is complete. If you'd like to move on to tricksy means "main stream political movements" use to disenfranchise people without coming straight out and saying "I don't like colored people" see my response to Belthazor. The proof is in the pudding.