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  1. #1
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    China's Organ Harvesting Holocaust

    Will anything be done to stop this? Or will the world look the other way like it did with Nazi Germany?

    Chinese dissidents are being executed for their organs

    Zheng Qiaozhi — we will call him George — still has nightmares. He was interning at China’s Shenyang Army General Hospital when he was drafted to be part of an organ-harvesting team.

    The prisoner was brought in, tied hand and foot, but very much alive. The army doctor in charge sliced him open from chest to belly button and exposed his two kidneys. “Cut the veins and arteries,” he told his shocked intern. George did as he was told. Blood spurted everywhere.

    The kidneys were placed in an organ-transplant container.

    Then the doctor ordered George to remove the man’s eyeballs. Hearing that, the dying prisoner gave him a look of sheer terror, and George froze. “I can’t do it,” he told the doctor, who then quickly scooped out the man’s eyeballs himself.

    George was so unnerved by what he had seen that he soon quit his job at the hospital and returned home. Later, afraid that he might be the next victim of China’s forced organ-transplant business, he fled to Canada and assumed a new identity.

    First-person accounts like George’s are understandably rare. The “transplant tourists” who come to China are naturally told nothing about the “donors” of their new heart, liver or kidney. And those who are executed for their organs tell no tales.

    Experts estimate that between 60,000 and 100,000 organs are transplanted annually in China. Multiply that number times the cost of a liver transplant ($170,000) or a kidney transplant ($130,000), and the result is an eye-popping $10 billion to 20 billion.

    And where do these hundreds of thousands of organs come from? George was told nothing about the background of the young man whose kidneys he fatally removed except that he was “under 18 and in good health.”

    But experts like Ethan Gutmann, author of several books on the subject, believe that the vast majority are obtained by executing prisoners of conscience.

    One particularly rich source of fresh organs for China’s transplant industry in recent years has been the Falun Gong, which was declared a heretical Buddhist sect in 1999 by then-Party Secretary Jiang Zemin. Hundreds of thousands — perhaps millions — of the group’s followers have been arrested and disappeared into a vast network of secret prisons, many never to reemerge — at least in one piece.

    The Muslim minorities of China’s far west are apparently next in line. Over the past couple of years, between one to three million Uighur and Kazakh men have been arrested and sent to concentration camps — Beijing calls them “vocational training centers” — in the region.

    Tellingly, all these prisoners of conscience not only had their blood drawn upon entry but also had their organs examined, presumably so they could be more quickly matched with those willing to pay for them. Even more ominously, dedicated organ-transplant lanes have been opened at airports in the region, while crematoria are being built nearby.

    All this suggests that assembly-line harvesting of Uighur, Kazakh and Tibetan organs is already getting underway. China is not just ridding itself of troublesome minorities, it is profiting mightily in the process.

    Despite China’s claims to the contrary, its transplant business is booming. And, thanks to a Western technology called ECMO — extracorporeal membrane oxygenation — it has become much, much more lucrative.

    Twenty years ago, it was only possible to successfully harvest an organ or two — two kidneys, say, or a heart — from a transplant victim. The other organs, such as the lungs and liver, had to be discarded because they had been deprived of oxygen too long to be usable.

    Now, the victims are put on an ECMO machine, which serves as an artificial heart and lung and keeps every last organ fresh enough to be harvested. Before ECMO, a victim’s few salvageable organs were worth maybe $250,000. Now, with ECMO, every organ can be harvested — even the skin — and the victim is easily worth two or three times as much. ECMO, which has saved countless lives in the West, has had the opposite effect in China: It has accelerated the killing of innocent people.

    In recent years, China has gone to ever greater lengths to cover up these crimes from international scrutiny. In January 2015, the government announced that it would only use organs from voluntary civilian organ donors and that the use of organs from executed prisoners would be banned.

    As proof, they even published statistics. These showed a straight-line increase in “voluntary” organ donations so picture-perfect it could only be fabricated. And China’s “official” number of voluntary donors had only risen to 6,000 by 2018, a number far too small to supply the many tens of thousands of organs actually transplanted that year.

    Proof that the slaughter of “donors” continues is revealed by the country’s amazingly short wait times for organs. In normal countries, sick people can wait for many months or years for an organ to become available. The wait time in the UK is three years. The wait time in Canada is double that. Only in China do organ tourists receive a kidney, heart or liver transplant within days or weeks of arriving. In fact, in some cases patients have reported that their transplant surgeries were scheduled before they even arrived in China — something that could only happen as a result of forced organ harvesting.

    The world is beginning to wake up to the fact that virtually every organ transplant in China costs the life of an innocent human being. That’s why countries like Israel, Spain, Italy and Taiwan have already banned transplant tourism.

    In the past, primitive peoples often practiced human sacrifice in order to propitiate the gods.

    But China’s officially atheistic Communist Party couldn’t care less about pleasing or displeasing a higher being. It has resurrected the practice of human sacrifice for two very practical reasons: to rid itself of troublesome minorities and to turn a huge profit.

    China’s organ-transplant assembly line is not only murder for hire but may turn out to be a kind of genocide as well.

    Steven W. Mosher is the president of the Population Research Institute and the author of “Bully of Asia: Why China’s Dream is the New Threat to World Order,” out now.
    https://nypost.com/2019/06/01/chines...l-worker-says/
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

  2. #2
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    Re: China's Organ Harvesting Holocaust

    It is simply more important to build a disposable society where we buy goods so cheaply that we can throw them away after use.. then to worry about pesky things like slavery and organ harvesting.
    Let's not forget where the real problem is
    . Whit priveldge and American racism
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  3. #3
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    Re: China's Organ Harvesting Holocaust

    For my money I'm for developing the Black Mirror download thing where we choose whether or not we want to go live in a virtual reality. You can only preserve the body for so long.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  4. #4
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    Re: China's Organ Harvesting Holocaust

    We should definitely follow suit and prohibit insurance payments for transplants in China and to censure that kind of medical tourism so much as we can.

    ---------- Post added at 02:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:42 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    It is simply more important to build a disposable society where we buy goods so cheaply that we can throw them away after use.. then to worry about pesky things like slavery and organ harvesting.
    What on earth made you think that there was some kind of choice here. This is the logical fallacy known as the false dilemma. I'm thinking you can manage better than that MT.
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  5. #5
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    Re: China's Organ Harvesting Holocaust

    @sig, it was actually a point that our society ignores the horrible treatment of people of other countries because we get cheap goods.
    When trump talks about unfair deals with China. Part of the reason America isn't on a level playing field is because we have laws proteting workers. (Though trump isn't fighting for that specifically) that point is NEVER brought up in the discussion by the media.

    So.. you missed my point, but that is partly due to me being sarcastic.
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  6. #6
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    Re: China's Organ Harvesting Holocaust

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    @sig, it was actually a point that our society ignores the horrible treatment of people of other countries because we get cheap goods.
    When trump talks about unfair deals with China. Part of the reason America isn't on a level playing field is because we have laws proteting workers. (Though trump isn't fighting for that specifically) that point is NEVER brought up in the discussion by the media.

    So.. you missed my point, but that is partly due to me being sarcastic.
    Indeed. When you want to make a serious point but decide to throw in digs at your political opponents, it only clouds your intention and makes your argument much weaker.

    There are literally thousands of articles in the media about Chinas working conditions. A quick google search and you could easily find them. The "no one ever talks about" canard is a pet peeve of mine. Mostly when people say that it's because they don't bother to read/listen when people talk about it. Perhaps because you swim in conservitive circles you don't see them, but labor unions on the left are always going on about working conditions in other countries and how it impacts trade and puts pressure on American Unions, Companies, and workers. And the bleeding hearts are likewise vocal about the working conditions in other countries, including China.

    Here is one for you, check it out and maybe make a donation to fight bad working conditions in other countries.
    https://waronwant.org/sweatshops-china

    I also want to point out that those laws protecting workers are pretty much the result of liberal political agendas and labor unions over the last few decades and tend to be strongly resisted by conservative politicians who argue they are limitations on the free exercise of business and the market economy.
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  7. #7
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    Re: China's Organ Harvesting Holocaust

    I was talking about in regards to the tarif equation. And as far as a political dig, it is more directed at trump than anyone, because he speaks of unfair deals with China, but I haven't heard him argue human rights.
    Are the left critizing him that he should be arguing more strongly for human rights in this trade war and I am just missing it? I am certainly not arguing that people are silent on China's human rights violation, but where has the left praises trump for hurting that Induatry of oppression and slavery? If you are going to cry foul on me on this issie then I hope you can back it up in the proper context. Which I hope I have clarified and directed you away from a few of your incorrect assumptions.

    --
    Unions/liberals/ and workers rights
    ---
    Pretty much once you allow people to sue employers you have addressed 99percent of the actual problems.
    The unions are Democrat pet projects to funnel money to them at this point and aren't actually needed very much.
    So I don't accept your assumptions that the Dems are on the " right side" of that issue.

    PS.. have you read up on the "pull man strike"? Enourmouse political mess, but kinda a case in point of the good and bad of unions. Really a movie worthy tail.
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  8. #8
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    Re: China's Organ Harvesting Holocaust

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    Pretty much once you allow people to sue employers you have addressed 99percent of the actual problems.
    Which is why you have companies forcing workers to sign arbitration agreements in order to get a job.

    ---------- Post added at 04:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:03 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    PS.. have you read up on the "pull man strike"? Enourmouse political mess, but kinda a case in point of the good and bad of unions. Really a movie worthy tail.
    What was the bad part?

    How about the 1902 coal strike? Ever heard of that?
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  9. #9
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    Re: China's Organ Harvesting Holocaust

    The bad part was the president calling the military into a sovern state without invitation. The military shooting civilians. The union worker ceasing property and turning away the owners at gunpoint.
    .... It was a mess as I said.
    Pullman had oppened a community for his workers. Private school. Housing medical a general store. It was modern. For the time. But he slowly raises rents and lowered wages. Creating a kind of share cropper environment that the ex slaves of the south had been in (were still in?). It was toxic and created a union revolt.
    Basically all the reasons unions were needed. There was wage price fixing between companies. All sorts of nafarious and now illegal activity.

    I saw the book for it, but haven't checked it out.
    Figured the Pullman episode was pretty standard.
    I read about a iron workers strike. It wasn't good iether. That one had armed ceazing of the property by the workers as well. (Hard to recall).

    --
    Signing agreements to work.
    That doesn't excuse bodly injury due to company negkigence. Which was one of the most aggrefious crimes that led to unions to start. That was the major issue with the iron workes strike. Falling into the metal is where we got the phrase brokw the mold"

    ---------- Post added at 03:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:40 PM ----------

    The bad part was the president calling the military into a sovern state without invitation. The military shooting civilians. The union worker ceasing property and turning away the owners at gunpoint.
    .... It was a mess as I said.
    Pullman had oppened a community for his workers. Private school. Housing medical a general store. It was modern. For the time. But he slowly raises rents and lowered wages. Creating a kind of share cropper environment that the ex slaves of the south had been in (were still in?). It was toxic and created a union revolt.
    Basically all the reasons unions were needed. There was wage price fixing between companies. All sorts of nafarious and now illegal activity.

    I saw the book for it, but haven't checked it out.
    Figured the Pullman episode was pretty standard.
    I read about a iron workers strike. It wasn't good iether. That one had armed ceazing of the property by the workers as well. (Hard to recall).

    --
    Signing agreements to work.
    That doesn't excuse bodly injury due to company negkigence. Which was one of the most aggrefious crimes that led to unions to start. That was the major issue with the iron workes strike. Falling into the metal is where we got the phrase brokw the mold"
    To serve man.

  10. #10
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    Re: China's Organ Harvesting Holocaust

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    The union worker ceasing property and turning away the owners at gunpoint
    When did that happen?
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  11. #11
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    Re: China's Organ Harvesting Holocaust

    Quote Originally Posted by COWBOY
    When did that happen?
    Either in the Pullman strike right before 1900 or the steel/iron strike right after 1900's started. There was a pretty dramatic scene with the strikers in the construction yard, and the strike breakers coming in on a barge/ship both parties armed. Just can't recall exactly the sides (pullman or steel workers). The draw back of a book as a source in online discussions

    why do you ask?
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    Re: China's Organ Harvesting Holocaust

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    We should definitely follow suit and prohibit insurance payments for transplants in China and to censure that kind of medical tourism so much as we can.
    That's it? Really? Don't you think that if our intelligence agencies have proof of mass murder of dissidents in China that we should do more than "censure medical tourism"? Isn't this something we should take to the United Nations? If tens of thousands, perhaps millions of people in a lesser country were being murdered by their own government for body parts, wouldn't the more civilized nations of the world do more than "censure"?
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

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    Re: China's Organ Harvesting Holocaust

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    Either in the Pullman strike right before 1900 or the steel/iron strike right after 1900's started. There was a pretty dramatic scene with the strikers in the construction yard, and the strike breakers coming in on a barge/ship both parties armed. Just can't recall exactly the sides (pullman or steel workers). The draw back of a book as a source in online discussions

    why do you ask?
    Clarification.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  14. #14
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    Re: China's Organ Harvesting Holocaust

    Quote Originally Posted by cowboy
    Clarification.
    Great.. STORY TIME!

    So we home school, and thus visit the library weekly. while looking through the children section I came across a few books on unions and famous strikes.
    The first book I read was about the Pullman strikes. To me it was beyond interesting. It showed how out of control everyone involved could get.
    I already explained how the company owners got out of control, raising rents/refusing to lower them on his workers, while also lowering wages. So the workers were pretty desperate.
    On the other hand the strikers also got out of hand. So clarification, they were not the ones to turn away the owners at gun point. No, they exploded a bridge while a train was passing on it. (much better).
    The gov went crazy as well, as the president ignored the state's wishes to handle it internally, and sent in the military, basically the national guard at the time.. but it wasn't run like the national guard now. There was an incident where the military shot a man crossing the train tracks, who turned out to be a carpenter looking for his lost son. The community got pissed because he was well liked.... and of course because . well they killed him.

    The second book was about the iron workers strike that occurred before the Pullman strike (second correction). That is the group that took over the iron factory and through force of loaded guns turned away the owner. .. but I remember less about that one.


    /end story.

    Your were kinda vague, but I like the opportunity for story time. Any questions? we go back to the library soon I think.

    the overall point of the examples is that the ultimate reason for unions is pretty much past. Mostly because the industrial revolution and the challenges it caused have passed, and been dealt with, in part because of unions. Yay.
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    Re: China's Organ Harvesting Holocaust

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post

    the overall point of the examples is that the ultimate reason for unions is pretty much past. Mostly because the industrial revolution and the challenges it caused have passed, and been dealt with, in part because of unions. Yay.
    I'm going to tentatively agree with your argument that challenges of the industrial revolution have passed. Doesn't mean new challenges haven't emerged. When asked "what do you want?" labor leader Samuel Gompers responded with one word..."more". That will always be the case.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  16. #16
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    Re: China's Organ Harvesting Holocaust

    Quote Originally Posted by COWBOY
    I'm going to tentatively agree with your argument that challenges of the industrial revolution have passed. Doesn't mean new challenges haven't emerged. When asked "what do you want?" labor leader Samuel Gompers responded with one word..."more". That will always be the case.
    Do you agree with my point that the discussion on tariffs should include the unlevel playing field created by their lack of protecting workers in a similar way that America does, and my contention that, that specific matter is not brought up politically as a major push.
    IE, Dems are not criticizing trump on not doing it, and I don't think trump is actually pushing that part.
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    Re: China's Organ Harvesting Holocaust

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    That's it? Really? Don't you think that if our intelligence agencies have proof of mass murder of dissidents in China that we should do more than "censure medical tourism"? Isn't this something we should take to the United Nations? If tens of thousands, perhaps millions of people in a lesser country were being murdered by their own government for body parts, wouldn't the more civilized nations of the world do more than "censure"?
    Yep, that's it. I don't think it is wise for one nation to decide to murder a lot of people in the hopes they will stop others from murdering people in a place they can't reasonably control and don't fully understand. It pretty much always works out badly. What we can do is not participate and prohibit our own citizens from participating in it.
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    Re: China's Organ Harvesting Holocaust

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    Yep, that's it. I don't think it is wise for one nation to decide to murder a lot of people in the hopes they will stop others from murdering people ...
    Who argued for murdering a lot of people to stop others from murdering people?
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

 

 

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