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  1. #21
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    Re: Why Putin wanted his puppet Trump as president

    Quote Originally Posted by COWBOY
    It didn't have to be.
    That is true, you don't need actual evidence for conspiracy theories.
    Nor do they have to line up with actual facts..
    So.. you are correct. It didn't have to be.
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  2. #22
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    Re: Why Putin wanted his puppet Trump as president

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    Nor do they have to line up with actual facts..
    Fortunately they do, and there is evidence, from Trump's own lying mouth.
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  3. #23
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    Re: Why Putin wanted his puppet Trump as president

    @ cowboy, I don't see the connection you are trying to make. I mean the original charge is collusion and nothing has come of that. I think we are getting the reports Soon on the big three witnesses and so far all they have is procedural crimes un related to the original charge.
    So.. to suggest as you seem to be that Trump hinself is the best evidence. Seems laughable because the investigation had got nothing. So you have more than the investigation. Which is impressive, and sad atthe same. Rime.
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  4. #24
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    Re: Why Putin wanted his puppet Trump as president

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    @ cowboy, I don't see the connection you are trying to make. I mean the original charge is collusion and nothing has come of that. I think we are getting the reports Soon on the big three witnesses and so far all they have is procedural crimes un related to the original charge.
    So.. to suggest as you seem to be that Trump hinself is the best evidence. Seems laughable because the investigation had got nothing. So you have more than the investigation. Which is impressive, and sad atthe same. Rime.
    People already guilty, many indictments, and like I said Trump lied, therefore compromised himself. Further he did nothing about it and violated his oath. Whoever said it was only about collusion? Oh, Trump.
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  5. #25
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    Re: Why Putin wanted his puppet Trump as president

    Well it starts off as an accusation of a real crime, then it gets down graded to convictions about stuff unrelated to the first accusation and not even involving the original claim. Then it gets changed to un provable assertions of abigupus and clearly legal stuff. Like being compromised by legal buisness deals that never actually occurred. So it is now down to liberal hand wringing about non crimes..
    Hardly interesting at this point. so
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  6. #26
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    Re: Why Putin wanted his puppet Trump as president

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    Like being compromised by legal buisness deals that never actually occurred.
    No, he was compromised by his lies and violated his oath by not coming clean about it.

    ---------- Post added at 01:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:57 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    then it gets down graded to convictions about stuff unrelated to the first accusation
    How is it downgraded? It's still crimes.

    and why would it have to be related. It's crimes.

    Additionally, he hasn't been officially accused of any crimes yet. His fixation on collusion and the term collusion is an effort to set a bar, I only hope we can get there someday and prove what a scum he is...but it isn't necessary.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  7. #27
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    Re: Why Putin wanted his puppet Trump as president

    Quote Originally Posted by COWBOY
    How is it downgraded? It's still crimes.
    Because it isn't about the original intent of the investigation. I mean, I am all for the FBI prosecuting people for lying to them. Washington is surrounded with dirty people that have plenty of stuff to lie about.
    My only complaint is that there are other investigations that should have gone like this one (IE prosecuting lying to the FBI).
    However, the lies that were told are not establishing the original intent of the investigation. I mean, they are not investigating to see how many people will lie to the FBI, they are investigating to see if Trump Colluded with Russia to steal an election.
    That is why it is a downgrade, because none of it helps establish the entire point of the investigation.
    Put another way, they are creating crimes of procedure(for the most part), not uncovering underlying crimes.

    Quote Originally Posted by COWBOY
    Additionally, he hasn't been officially accused of any crimes yet. His fixation on collusion and the term collusion is an effort to set a bar, I only hope we can get there someday and prove what a scum he is...but it isn't necessary.
    Well the investigation is about a specific crime. It isn't a fishing expedition. So your right no legal accusation has been made, and that is because they have not uncovered any crime.
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  8. #28
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    Re: Why Putin wanted his puppet Trump as president

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post

    Well the investigation is about a specific crime. It isn't a fishing expedition. So your right no legal accusation has been made, and that is because they have not uncovered any crime.
    But they have. and what do you mean by procedural anyway?
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  9. #29
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    Re: Why Putin wanted his puppet Trump as president

    Quote Originally Posted by cowboy
    But they have. and what do you mean by procedural anyway?
    So, what I mean by procedural crime, is that in answering questions about otherwise legal activity, you lie to the FBI.
    Like, "No FBI I wasn't at the hotel on 5th street on the 5th." It isn't illegal to be at the hotel on 5th street on the 5th, but it is illegal to lie to the FBI about it.
    That is what the charge of "lying to the FBI" amounts to, and that is pretty much all they have so far in regards to the initial point of the investigation.

    Yea, they have uncovered OTHER crimes. Like Campaign finance violations. Still they are not related to the initial point of the investigation. So while people are making a lot of hay about it, it really doesn't move the investigation forward in regards to its initial point. That is what I mean when I say they haven't found any underlying crime, no matter how much the liberal media tells you they have, it simply isn't related.
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  10. #30
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    Re: Why Putin wanted his puppet Trump as president

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    Like, "No FBI I wasn't at the hotel on 5th street on the 5th." It isn't illegal to be at the hotel on 5th street on the 5th, but it is illegal to lie to the FBI about it.
    Like, "I didn't have sexual relations with that woman, Ms. Lewinsky"

    You're cracking me up over here.

    ---------- Post added at 05:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:52 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post

    Yea, they have uncovered OTHER crimes. Like Campaign finance violations. Still they are not related to the initial point of the investigation. So while people are making a lot of hay about it, it really doesn't move the investigation forward in regards to its initial point. That is what I mean when I say they haven't found any underlying crime, no matter how much the liberal media tells you they have, it simply isn't related.


    But they have:

    "1) George Papadopoulos, former Trump campaign foreign policy adviser, was arrested in July 2017 and pleaded guilty last October to making false statements to the FBI. He got a 14-day sentence.

    2) Paul Manafort, Trump’s former campaign chair, was indicted on a total of 25 different counts by Mueller’s team, related mainly to his past work for Ukrainian politicians and his finances. He had two trials scheduled, and the first ended in a conviction on eight counts of financial crimes. To avert the second trial, Manafort struck a plea deal with Mueller in September 2018 (though Mueller’s team said in November that he breached that agreement by lying to them).


    3) Rick Gates, a former Trump campaign aide and Manafort’s longtime junior business partner, was indicted on similar charges to Manafort. But in February he agreed to a plea deal with Mueller’s team, pleading guilty to just one false statements charge and one conspiracy charge.

    4) Michael Flynn, Trump’s former national security adviser, pleaded guilty last December to making false statements to the FBI.

    5-20) 13 Russian nationals and three Russian companies were indicted on conspiracy charges, with some also being accused of identity theft. The charges related to a Russian propaganda effort designed to interfere with the 2016 campaign. The companies involved are the Internet Research Agency, often described as a “Russian troll farm,” and two other companies that helped finance it. The Russian nationals indicted include 12 of the agency’s employees and its alleged financier, Yevgeny Prigozhin.

    21) Richard Pinedo: This California man pleaded guilty to an identity theft charge in connection with the Russian indictments, and has agreed to cooperate with Mueller. He was sentenced to 6 months in prison and 6 months of home detention in October.

    22) Alex van der Zwaan: This London lawyer pleaded guilty to making false statements to the FBI about his contacts with Rick Gates and another unnamed person based in Ukraine. He was sentenced to 30 days in jail and has completed his sentence.

    23) Konstantin Kilimnik: This longtime business associate of Manafort and Gates, who’s currently based in Russia, was charged alongside Manafort with attempting to obstruct justice by tampering with witnesses in Manafort’s pending case this year.

    24-35) 12 Russian GRU officers: These officers of Russia’s military intelligence service were charged with crimes related to the hacking and leaking of leading Democrats’ emails in 2016.

    36) Michael Cohen: In August, Trump’s former lawyer pleaded guilty to 8 counts — tax and bank charges, related to his finances and taxi business, and campaign finance violations — related to hush money payments to women who alleged affairs with Donald Trump, as part of a separate investigation in New York (that Mueller had handed off). But in November, he made a plea deal with Mueller too, for lying to Congress about efforts to build a Trump Tower in Moscow.

    Finally, there is one other person Mueller initially investigated, but handed over to others in the Justice Department to charge: Sam Patten. This Republican operative and lobbyist pleaded guilty to not registering as a foreign agent with his work for Ukrainian political bigwigs, and agreed to cooperate with the government."

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...nts-grand-jury
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  11. #31
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    Re: Why Putin wanted his puppet Trump as president

    Quote Originally Posted by COWBOY
    Like, "I didn't have sexual relations with that woman, Ms. Lewinsky"

    You're cracking me up over here.
    How is it funny? I have affirmed that you shouldn't lie to the FBI, as that is a crime.
    Only difference here, is that Clinton lie was in relation to the crime being investigated. Namely that he rapped two of his subordinates.
    So proving that he in facts does have sex with his subordinates is at least related.

    Quote Originally Posted by COWBOY
    But they have:

    "1) George Papadopoulos, former Trump campaign foreign policy adviser, was arrested in July 2017 and pleaded guilty last October to making false statements to the FBI. He got a 14-day sentence.

    2) Paul Manafort, Trump’s former campaign chair, was indicted on a total of 25 different counts by Mueller’s team, related mainly to his past work for Ukrainian politicians and his finances. He had two trials scheduled, and the first ended in a conviction on eight counts of financial crimes. To avert the second trial, Manafort struck a plea deal with Mueller in September 2018 (though Mueller’s team said in November that he breached that agreement by lying to them).


    3) Rick Gates, a former Trump campaign aide and Manafort’s longtime junior business partner, was indicted on similar charges to Manafort. But in February he agreed to a plea deal with Mueller’s team, pleading guilty to just one false statements charge and one conspiracy charge.

    4) Michael Flynn, Trump’s former national security adviser, pleaded guilty last December to making false statements to the FBI.

    5-20) 13 Russian nationals and three Russian companies were indicted on conspiracy charges, with some also being accused of identity theft. The charges related to a Russian propaganda effort designed to interfere with the 2016 campaign. The companies involved are the Internet Research Agency, often described as a “Russian troll farm,” and two other companies that helped finance it. The Russian nationals indicted include 12 of the agency’s employees and its alleged financier, Yevgeny Prigozhin.

    21) Richard Pinedo: This California man pleaded guilty to an identity theft charge in connection with the Russian indictments, and has agreed to cooperate with Mueller. He was sentenced to 6 months in prison and 6 months of home detention in October.

    22) Alex van der Zwaan: This London lawyer pleaded guilty to making false statements to the FBI about his contacts with Rick Gates and another unnamed person based in Ukraine. He was sentenced to 30 days in jail and has completed his sentence.

    23) Konstantin Kilimnik: This longtime business associate of Manafort and Gates, who’s currently based in Russia, was charged alongside Manafort with attempting to obstruct justice by tampering with witnesses in Manafort’s pending case this year.

    24-35) 12 Russian GRU officers: These officers of Russia’s military intelligence service were charged with crimes related to the hacking and leaking of leading Democrats’ emails in 2016.

    36) Michael Cohen: In August, Trump’s former lawyer pleaded guilty to 8 counts — tax and bank charges, related to his finances and taxi business, and campaign finance violations — related to hush money payments to women who alleged affairs with Donald Trump, as part of a separate investigation in New York (that Mueller had handed off). But in November, he made a plea deal with Mueller too, for lying to Congress about efforts to build a Trump Tower in Moscow.

    Finally, there is one other person Mueller initially investigated, but handed over to others in the Justice Department to charge: Sam Patten. This Republican operative and lobbyist pleaded guilty to not registering as a foreign agent with his work for Ukrainian political bigwigs, and agreed to cooperate with the government."
    You keep saying "but they have", but the context seems to be missing.
    Yes they have found other crimes, no they haven't found any underlying crime of collusion.
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  12. #32
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    Re: Why Putin wanted his puppet Trump as president

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    So proving that he in facts does have sex with his subordinates is at least related.
    Indeed, and proving that this scum has business dealings with Russians who hacked our election, and then lied about them to cover them up, is at least related.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  13. #33
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    Re: Why Putin wanted his puppet Trump as president

    Except.. he hasn't really done that. I mean, he was trying to have buisness, but it isn't at all clear that he lied and he certainly didn't lie under oath comparable to Clinton.. yet..
    So while you clearly have hatred for Trump, you just don't have the kind of case you want against him.
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  14. #34
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    Re: Why Putin wanted his puppet Trump as president

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    Except.. he hasn't really done that. I mean, he was trying to have buisness, but it isn't at all clear that he lied and he certainly didn't lie under oath comparable to Clinton.. yet..
    So while you clearly have hatred for Trump, you just don't have the kind of case you want against him.
    I wasn't talking about Trump, although Trump did lie and it is clear. Members of his campaign did lie and it was the entire campaign Mueller was tasked with looking at.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  15. #35
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    Re: Why Putin wanted his puppet Trump as president

    Quote Originally Posted by COWBOY
    I wasn't talking about Trump,
    I was confused by all the "HIS lying mouth" talk.

    Quote Originally Posted by COWBOY
    Members of his campaign did lie and it was the entire campaign Mueller was tasked with looking at.
    Sure, sure. It's just that those lies have to also be connected to the original intent of the investigation.
    So far, not so much. People have lied, and that gets the media excited.. but those lies haven't been about what the investigation intended to find to start with.
    People committed crimes, and again those get the media all excited, but once again those crimes weren't about what the investigation intended to find to start with.

    And, while the investigation is about the whole team, it is significantly less relevant to trump if unknown to him a Chinese operative were working in his campaign. That sort of thing seem like it should be a concern for all political campaigns and is a national security risk in general. .. but it isn't the "fault" of a given campaign.
    So the idea that the investigation is about the team and not Trump himself.. is also a bit deceiving, because in the end, it only matters if TRUMP is guilty personally, at least as far as politics is concerned.
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  16. #36
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    Re: Why Putin wanted his puppet Trump as president

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post


    Sure, sure. It's just that those lies have to also be connected to the original intent of the investigation.
    So far, not so much. People have lied, and that gets the media excited.. but those lies haven't been about what the investigation intended to find to start with.
    People committed crimes, and again those get the media all excited, but once again those crimes weren't about what the investigation intended to find to start with.
    They are, as supported.

    ---------- Post added at 09:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:36 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    it only matters if TRUMP is guilty personally, at least as far as politics is concerned.
    Moving the goal posts.
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  17. #37
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    Re: Why Putin wanted his puppet Trump as president

    First.. the thead is titles with Trump being named as the puppet. Not his adminstration.. not people who used to work for him.. Trump.
    So if anything it is moving the goal posts on the part of liberals who are starting to prepaid for the eventuality that Trump didn't actually do anything like what he is accused of..

    Second, you did not support the relation to the original charge of the current convictions. You simply listed them.
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  18. #38
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    Re: Why Putin wanted his puppet Trump as president

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    First.. the thead is titles with Trump being named as the puppet. Not his adminstration.. not people who used to work for him.. Trump.
    Yes, because who is in control of the administration?

    ---------- Post added at 01:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:47 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post

    Second, you did not support the relation to the original charge of the current convictions. You simply listed them.
    There is no original "charge". There is the origin of the special prosecutor.
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  19. #39
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    Re: Why Putin wanted his puppet Trump as president

    Quote Originally Posted by cowboy
    Yes, because who is in control of the administration?
    Trump.. right. So if Trump isn't found to be involved in a crime... then.... it isn't nearly as big a deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by COWBOY
    There is no original "charge". There is the origin of the special prosecutor.
    Right, that is what I mean.
    Which he hasn't found any evidence for, nor has any convictions or admissions of guilt in relation too.
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  20. #40
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    Re: Why Putin wanted his puppet Trump as president

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    Trump.. right. So if Trump isn't found to be involved in a crime... then.... it isn't nearly as big a deal.
    Sure it is, it was his campaign and his administration.

    ---------- Post added at 10:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:34 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    Right, that is what I mean.
    Which he hasn't found any evidence for, nor has any convictions or admissions of guilt in relation too.
    and you're wrong, as already supported
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