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  1. #1
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    Why Putin wanted his puppet Trump as president

    This is how big wars start:


    "Kerch strait confrontation: what happened and why does it matter?
    As Ukrainian ships and sailors are being held by Russia in Crimea, what might happen next?


    Andrew Roth in Kiev

    What happened on Sunday?
    Depends who you ask. Ukraine says that three of its ships were travelling from Odessa to Mariupol when they were intercepted by the Russian coast guard. The Russian boats fired on the Ukrainians and also rammed one of their tugboats. Russia says three Ukrainian sailors were wounded, Ukraine says the number was six. Russia also scrambled jets and helicopters, and even blocked the Kerch strait with a barge, closing access to the Sea of Azov.

    Russia doesn’t deny any of this happened, but claims the Ukrainian ships violated territorial waters. The Ukrainian ships and sailors are now being held by Russia in Crimea.

    How did Ukraine react?
    Angrily. Ukraine called the attack on the ships an “act of aggression” and parliament voted to declare martial law in border territories, a measure it resisted even at the worst moments of the conflict in south-east Ukraine.

    Where is the Kerch strait and why is it significant?
    The Kerch strait is the waterway between mainland Russia and Crimea, the peninsula Russia annexed from Ukraine in 2014. It serves as the gateway into the Sea of Azov, which borders Russia and Ukraine. A bilateral treaty gives both countries the right to patrol the waters. It is also the site of a new, 19-km (12-mile) bridge built by Russia that cost an estimated $4bn (£3.1bn) and has been touted as a prestige project. Russia has significantly built up its military presence in the region since 2014.

    What is the state of Russia-Ukraine relations?

    They have never been worse. After a revolution in Ukraine toppled the previous president, Russia annexed the peninsula of Crimea and backed a separatist revolt in south-east Ukraine. Ukraine has responded by cutting ties with Russia and asking for support from the west. More then 10,000 people have been killed in south-east Ukraine since 2014 and the conflict is ongoing.

    How has the international community reacted?
    A number of western countries have said they are “deeply concerned” but it is not clear that will be backed up by actions, including new sanctions. Donald Trump gave a subdued response to the clash, saying “we do not like what’s happening either way”. He is set to meet Vladimir Putin during the G20 summit in Argentina later this week. US secretary of state Mike Pompeo later issued a statement saying that the US “condemns this aggressive Russian action”.

    The UN secretary general, Antůnio Guterres, has urged both countries to use “maximum restraint” and avoid further escalation.

    What is Putin thinking?
    Two Ukrainian gunboats and a tug hardly presented a threat to the Russian navy. The Kremlin is throwing its weight around to show that it will control the waters near Crimea despite treaties or international condemnation to the contrary. There is also speculation that a military crisis could boost domestic support for Putin, whose favourable ratings are at their lowest in years because of painful pension reforms. In fact, the last time the Russian president’s favourables were in the mid-60s (low for Russia), he annexed Crimea and saw his ratings rise above 85% (at least according to Russian pollsters).

    What might happen next?
    Russia has indicated it is going to charge the sailors, which will provoke further anger from Kiev. Ukraine says the sailors should be treated as prisoners of war, which would preclude a criminal trial. Most likely, Russia will seek to use them as a bargaining chip in further trades with Ukraine, or use them as a way to put pressure on the government. For now, the Kerch strait is open, but Russia has shown it can and will close it to Ukrainian ships when it serves Moscow’s interests."
    Last edited by CowboyX; November 27th, 2018 at 08:54 PM.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  2. #2
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    Re: Why Putin wanted his puppet Trump as president

    The US will not go to war with Russia over an eastern European country unless their actions are absolutely outrageous. Say, a full-scale military invasion of one of the sovereign nations.

    I really don't think there is strong evidence that Trump is in Russia's pocket. While he cozy's up to Putin on a personal level, US policy has not been especially sympathetic to Russia's actual interests in a substantive way.
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  4. #3
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    Re: Why Putin wanted his puppet Trump as president

    Agreed with Sig on this. The one additional aspect is that this has been a pretty traditional way for Russia to begin more overt operations in its neighbors see both Georgia and Crimea. Given the level of support the US has offered Ukraine and presence of some troops in Ukraine already, it seems unlikely Russia will pursue something that isn't deniable.
    "Suffering lies not with inequality, but with dependence." -Voltaire
    "Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.Ē -G.K. Chesterton
    Also, if you think I've overlooked your post please shoot me a PM, I'm not intentionally ignoring you.


  5. #4
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    Re: Why Putin wanted his puppet Trump as president

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    The US will not go to war with Russia over an eastern European country unless their actions are absolutely outrageous. Say, a full-scale military invasion of one of the sovereign nations.

    I really don't think there is strong evidence that Trump is in Russia's pocket. While he cozy's up to Putin on a personal level, US policy has not been especially sympathetic to Russia's actual interests in a substantive way.
    A weakened NATO accomplishes exactly what Putin wanted. Russia's actions have already been outrageous and if he could've gotten away with it Trump would have removed the sanctions.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  6. #5
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    Re: Why Putin wanted his puppet Trump as president

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    A weakened NATO accomplishes exactly what Putin wanted. Russia's actions have already been outrageous and if he could've gotten away with it Trump would have removed the sanctions.
    I don't put much stock in the , "would have if he could have" type critiques. It's pure speculation. Nato allies are not enamored of Trump, but Nato isn't truly smaller or weaker in a practical sense.
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  8. #6
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    Re: Why Putin wanted his puppet Trump as president

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    Nato allies are not enamored of Trump, but Nato isn't truly smaller or weaker in a practical sense.
    With out the assuredness of U.S. support it sure is.

    ---------- Post added at 02:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:36 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    I don't put much stock in the , "would have if he could have" type critiques. It's pure speculation.
    Not really:

    "In late March 2016, steaming toward the Republican nomination and with his aides still secretly in talks for a real estate deal in Russia, Donald J. Trump made a lengthy case for giving President Vladimir V. Putin what he wanted most: relief from American-led sanctions for his annexation of Crimea."
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  9. #7
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    Re: Why Putin wanted his puppet Trump as president

    @ cowboy... I dont know if you noticed this.. but Trump says a lot of stuff. You really have to watch what he does.
    So far.. not so friendly to Russia.
    I know it is taken many ways but I don't think Trump pushing for a standing army next to Russia is easy on them.
    To serve man.

  10. #8
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    Re: Why Putin wanted his puppet Trump as president

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    With out the assuredness of U.S. support it sure is.[COLOR="Silver"]
    The US commitment to NATO has not changed in any appreciable way. Trump has said some ****, but the most important thing to know about Trump is that nothing he says much matters.

    "In late March 2016, steaming toward the Republican nomination and with his aides still secretly in talks for a real estate deal in Russia, Donald J. Trump made a lengthy case for giving President Vladimir V. Putin what he wanted most: relief from American-led sanctions for his annexation of Crimea."
    Trump also said Putin watches him on TV because he thinks what Trump says is super important and they are good friends. Trump also says he has no dealings with Putin what so ever. Trump is a full time liar and ********ter. Nothing he sais is of any real substance what so ever.
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  11. #9
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    Re: Why Putin wanted his puppet Trump as president

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    The US commitment to NATO has not changed in any appreciable way. Trump has said some ****, but the most important thing to know about Trump is that nothing he says much matters.

    Trump also said Putin watches him on TV because he thinks what Trump says is super important and they are good friends. Trump also says he has no dealings with Putin what so ever. Trump is a full time liar and ********ter. Nothing he sais is of any real substance what so ever.
    I couldn't disagree more. What the president says carries incredible weight, even if he is a moron.

    ---------- Post added at 11:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:44 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    So far.. not so friendly to Russia.
    How so?
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  12. #10
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    Re: Why Putin wanted his puppet Trump as president

    I couldn't disagree more. What the president says carries incredible weight, even if he is a moron.
    Why? When he is a known serial liar, and a blowhard, and deeply ignorant on many subjects, why should we care one whit about what he says? If he says to contradictory things, as he often does, which one should we believe in? The only rational thing to do is to ignore his words and only consider his actions.
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  13. #11
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    Re: Why Putin wanted his puppet Trump as president

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    why should we care one whit about what he says?
    Not us but our NATO allies.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  14. #12
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    Re: Why Putin wanted his puppet Trump as president

    Is Trump really a puppet directly controlled by Putin? Or is Putin just taking advantage of an easily manipulated fool? We know how Trump loves compliments so I don't see Putin having to do more than just to feed that.

  15. #13
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    Re: Why Putin wanted his puppet Trump as president

    Quote Originally Posted by SharmaK View Post
    We know how Trump loves compliments so I don't see Putin having to do more than just to feed that.
    True.

    ---------- Post added at 10:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:53 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by SharmaK View Post
    Is Trump really a puppet directly controlled by Putin? Or is Putin just taking advantage of an easily manipulated fool?
    What's the difference?

    We know that Trump lied about his continued business dealings and that the Russians knew of that lie. In not coming clean immediately he was thus compromised as the Russians knew of his lies. He was therefore in violation of his oath of office.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  16. #14
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    Re: Why Putin wanted his puppet Trump as president

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    What's the difference?
    The big difference intent. Legally, being an idiot doesnít help you but in the court of public opinion, it does. He could even spin it that he was the victim and was just trying to protect his family from Putinís threats.


    We know that Trump lied about his continued business dealings and that the Russians knew of that lie. In not coming clean immediately he was thus compromised as the Russians knew of his lies. He was therefore in violation of his oath of office.
    Everyone knows its a lie - however, no one has yet shown that heís compromised due to his financial dealings with Russia. And heís already in violation of the constitution by keeping his businesses and not putting them into a blind trust - he just handed everything to his sons.

    The dangerous thing about Trump isnít that no one has found definitive proof heís a terrible person: the fact is that his base doesnít even care.




    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

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  18. #15
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    Re: Why Putin wanted his puppet Trump as president

    @ sharmak, what part of the const requires you to give away your business to be president?
    To serve man.

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  20. #16
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    Re: Why Putin wanted his puppet Trump as president

    Quote Originally Posted by SharmaK View Post
    no one has yet shown that he’s compromised due to his financial dealings with Russia.
    They have now.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  21. #17
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    Re: Why Putin wanted his puppet Trump as president

    Not really considering no deal was done.. and that doing construction was his job anyway.. it his really hard to leverage a billionaire with money.
    To serve man.

  22. #18
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    Re: Why Putin wanted his puppet Trump as president

    Even if there were a financial deal inked it will be hard to prove anything untoward. But thatís the point of presidents putting their businesses into a blind trust, which he didnít do.

    Trump has got away with everything. We just have to stall all his efforts until heís out of office. Itís the only way.

  23. #19
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    Re: Why Putin wanted his puppet Trump as president

    So I am honestly split on the blind trust thing. Not because I think a blind trust is better, but because the underlying assumptions is pretty regular occurrence. Namely that people in our gov use their position to get rich. Trump is no different as far as a risk. On the other hand the blind trust doesn't fix it.. and I honestly don't know what does. I see no reason to penalize a person who becomes president who gets wealthy off the gov for actually doing things. Like building and renting space and what not. As opposed to those that get money from prospecting, like selendra and the whole green energy fiasco.
    So the point is heard, but .. I think misaplied.
    To serve man.

  24. #20
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    Re: Why Putin wanted his puppet Trump as president

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    Not really considering no deal was done..
    It didn't have to be.

    ---------- Post added at 10:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:09 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by SharmaK View Post
    Even if there were a financial deal inked it will be hard to prove anything untoward.
    We have it in his own words, recorded, multiple , multiple times, lying and that he was compromised the same as Michael Flynn. That he allowed it to continue and did nothing about it - like coming clean - was a direct violation of his oath of office.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

 

 
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