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  1. #101
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    Re: Boys Can Have Periods Too!

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post
    Negative Skippy. I retracted nothing! That I tried to clarify your misunderstanding of my comment doesn't = retraction.
    It certainly has not been coherently explained why those who think PC is good would like my post and those don't would not like it. So unless you are going to support by at least explaining how the statement you made is accurate, it is indeed retracted (not repeating and dropping one's argument is considered a retraction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post
    It was a simple comment/opinion, nothing more, and in context, I stand by it.
    You can think what you want but if you aren't going to support it in this thread, then as an argument it's retracted.



    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post
    I'm not thinking doctors prescribe for themselves and even the Clintons don't try their own cases (and they are incapable of doing wrong ya know).
    But doctors do diagnose themselves so they can be trusted to accurately assess disease symptoms within themselves.

    Likewise since I know my own thoughts about PC, I can safely say that I'm not PC. Again, I think it's ridiculous that certain comedians can't play certain colleges because of PC culture there. So I'm not PC. Case closed on that issue.


    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post
    The last word is yours....
    Okay. Your comment about how those who like or dislike PC would react to my post has no support behind it all. I see no reason to consider that to be an accurate statement nor have you, as far as I can tell, even tried to show that it's true.

    So maybe it's not even an argument, let alone a supported argument.

  2. #102
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    Re: Boys Can Have Periods Too!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    Trans-male has a very specific meaning.

    The language tends to be pretty specific, it's just that ideological opponents often are not interested in truly learning about the language or issues involved. I try to help with that. The same happens on the other side of course.
    ...
    I give you the LBGT dictionary...
    http://sites.psu.edu/prideclub/lgbt-dictionary/
    Here is the supposed "very specific meaning" of trans-male from your LBGT dictionary:

    Transman/Transguy A transgendered man, meaning a person of the male gender who was not always male gendered.

    WTF does that mean, exactly?

    It seems to me that rather than arguing gender has a meaning distinct from biological sex, the Left is conflating the two so that they can mean whatever is convenient.

    Why should I continue trying to understand definitions created by the Left, when it appears they are just playing word games?
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

  3. #103
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    Re: Boys Can Have Periods Too!

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Here is the supposed "very specific meaning" of trans-male from your LBGT dictionary:

    Transman/Transguy – A transgendered man, meaning a person of the male gender who was not always male gendered.

    WTF does that mean, exactly?
    I'm guessing it means a person who once identified as male and then later identified as female.

    And that is not forwarded as the definition of "trasngender".


    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    It seems to me that rather than arguing gender has a meaning distinct from biological sex, the Left is conflating the two so that they can mean whatever is convenient.
    Just because you are confused, it does not mean that people are trying to confuse you. If find the "left" definition of "gender" to be very coherent.


    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Why should I continue trying to understand definitions created by the Left, when it appears they are just playing word games?
    Again, you being confused does not mean others are playing games. Once you get the concept of identifying as a particular gender and you get the concept that the identity does not always match the birth sex, then the concept of "transgender" is pretty easy to understand.

  4. #104
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    Re: Boys Can Have Periods Too!

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    I'm guessing it means a person who once identified as male and then later identified as female.
    That's not what the definition says, Mican. It says that a transgendered man is someone "who was not always male gendered" but now is a "person of the male gender". It doesn't use the word "identify". So you're having to add your own words and interpretation and are "guessing" about a definition that Sig claims is already very specific.

    ---------- Post added at 02:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:36 PM ----------

    Mican and Sig, I have what should be a very simple yes or no question for you. It doesn't require the use of explanations or qualifying words such as "identify", etc. Just answer yes or no.

    Is a "transgendered man" a man?

    Yes or no?
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

  5. #105
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    Re: Boys Can Have Periods Too!

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    That's not what the definition says, Mican. It says that a transgendered man is someone "who was not always male gendered" but now is a "person of the male gender". It doesn't use the word "identify". So you're having to add your own words and interpretation and are "guessing" about a definition that Sig claims is already very specific.
    I'm adding my own words and interpretation to explain it to you since you apparently did not understand it as it was written.

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Mican and Sig, I have what should be a very simple yes or no question for you. It doesn't require the use of explanations or qualifying words such as "identify", etc. Just answer yes or no.

    Is a "transgendered man" a man?

    Yes or no?
    Yes. I considered transgendered men to be men. I personally know a couple and I use the male pronoun when referring to them and call them by the masculine names that they go by and if asked if they are men, I would say "yes, they are".

  6. #106
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    Re: Boys Can Have Periods Too!

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    I'm adding my own words and interpretation to explain it to you since you apparently did not understand it as it was written.



    Yes. I considered transgendered men to be men. I personally know a couple and I use the male pronoun when referring to them and call them by the masculine names that they go by and if asked if they are men, I would say "yes, they are".
    From my post #3: The Left's agenda only advances when definitions get confused and broadened to include nearly any possible interpretation, e.g. marriage. The lies of the left just keep on coming.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

  7. #107
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    Re: Boys Can Have Periods Too!

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    From my post #3: The Left's agenda only advances when definitions get confused and broadened to include nearly any possible interpretation, e.g. marriage. The lies of the left just keep on coming.
    Just because you get confused does not mean that there is an agenda to confuse you.

    As we learn more about things we need to shift our language to incorporate the new, and more accurate understandings of our world. We have learned that there are people who identify as the gender that does not correspond with their birth sex. So what do we do with this information? We acknowledge it and alter the language to incorporate our new understanding. If someone gets confused, the only thing one can do is try to explain it to them so they aren't confused anymore. But I really don't think it's that confusing.

  8. #108
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    Re: Boys Can Have Periods Too!

    Your agenda is not confusing. You want to change the definition of what a man is, so that your friends can feel better about themselves.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

  9. #109
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    Re: Boys Can Have Periods Too!

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Your agenda is not confusing. You want to change the definition of what a man is, so that your friends can feel better about themselves.
    No, it's so they are treated with the same respect that everyone who's not transgendered receives. THAT is my agenda.

    I don't go around calling my cisgender male friends "girls" and wouldn't call my transgendered male friends "girls" either and I see no reason why I should do that.

  10. #110
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    Re: Boys Can Have Periods Too!

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    No, it's so they are treated with the same respect that everyone who's not transgendered receives. THAT is my agenda.
    What makes you think that there will be an increase in respect, rather than an increase in scorn and laughter?

    And wouldn't increased respect make them feel better about themselves? Respect from others isn't the ultimate goal. Self respect is.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

  11. #111
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    Re: Boys Can Have Periods Too!

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    What makes you think that there will be an increase in respect, rather than an increase in scorn and laughter?
    I can't control what others do. But since I believe in treating them with respect, I recognize them by their gender identity and encourage other people and our laws to do the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    And wouldn't increased respect make them feel better about themselves? Respect from others isn't the ultimate goal. Self respect is.
    I disagree that that is the ultimate goal. While I like everyone to feel good about themselves, I don't think trying to manipulate people into feeling a certain way is a great goal.

    So speaking for myself, my goal is for people to treat each other with respect.

  12. #112
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    Re: Boys Can Have Periods Too!

    Your goal is to treat them with respect. Check. But don't you do that so they will feel better about themselves?

    Edit: I see you've changed you post to delete that your goal is to treat them with respect. I think that first gut response was the honest one. Now you're just lying to create obstacles to my line of argument.

    Your goal, as a member of the Left, is to make social misfits like homosexuals and those with gender dysphoria be accepted by society to feel good about themselves, and you think the way to achieve that is by changing definitions. The definitions of normal sexuality were changed to push for legitimacy of homosexuality. The definition of marriage had to be changed to allow homosexuals to feel good about their relationships (and to gain legal rights). And the definition of man and woman have to be changed so that your friends and others like them feel better about themselves. It's all very transparent.


    As a digression... Here's what you don't understand about me and people like me. I respect homosexuals and supposed transgenders as just people. Like anyone else. They deserve respect as people. Period. You're not going to get me or others like me to respect them more by changing definitions. Everybody, including me, has little peculiarities that make us different. That's just the human condition. Changing definitions won't increase the respect that people deserve or receive. If anything, claiming that a "transgender man" is a man will provoke derisive laughter and contempt from many people just on the sheer stupidity of the claim. As Dio said in his earlier post, these people probably need counseling. Supporting them in their dysphoric condition may do them more harm than good. Did you even consider that? I doubt it.
    Last edited by evensaul; January 25th, 2019 at 06:03 PM.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

  13. #113
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    Re: Boys Can Have Periods Too!

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Your goal is to treat them with respect. Check. But don't you do that so they will feel better about themselves?
    Not primarily.

    There are all kinds of positive side-effects to treating people with respect. Such as:
    1. They will feel better about their fellow people and not be as scared of them
    2. They will feel better about themselves
    3. They will feel better about me as a person
    4. I will feel better about me as a person (I like to think of myself as a good guy).
    5. Other people might follow my example and treat others with respect
    6. Treating people with respect makes the society in general more respectful and peaceful.
    7. It's a spiritually positive thing to be good to other people
    8, 9, 10...ect (if I were to think up more.

    So no, I didn't pick just one of those things and say to myself "THAT'S the ultimate goal". There are all kinds of good reasons to treat others with respect. Making them feel better about themselves is ONE reason to treat them with respect. The goal of treating them with respect should yield many different kinds of positive results, especially when compared to treating them disrespectfully.

  14. #114
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    Re: Boys Can Have Periods Too!

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    .. I don't see a real problem with saying that transgendered boys can menstruate and give birth.
    Ok, no problem with most people them I think,

    1. transgendered boys can have a period
    2. boys can not have a period

  15. #115
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    Re: Boys Can Have Periods Too!

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post
    Ok, no problem with most people them I think,

    1. transgendered boys can have a period
    2. boys can not have a period
    As written, those two points contradict each other. If boys cannot have period, then transgendered boys can't have periods. So either 1 is wrong or 2 is wrong.

    That can be fixed by making it:

    1. transgendered boys can have a period
    2. cisgendered boys can not have a period

  16. #116
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    Re: Boys Can Have Periods Too!

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    As written, those two points contradict each other. If boys cannot have period, then transgendered boys can't have periods. So either 1 is wrong or 2 is wrong.
    A transgendered boy is physically a girl per you and decided "they" wanted to be seen as a boy. Fine.
    Boys born as boys are not capable of a period no matter what gender they decide they are.

    ---------- Post added at 06:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:42 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    1. transgendered boys can have a period
    2. cisgendered boys can not have a period
    Long way around, but no issue can see

  17. #117
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    Re: Boys Can Have Periods Too!

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post
    A transgendered boy is physically a girl per you and decided "they" wanted to be seen as a boy. Fine.
    Boys born as boys are not capable of a period no matter what gender they decide they are.
    Sure. But the issue how do we define what is a "boy" and the school in the OP has chosen to define based on gender identity instead of "born as". And I don't see anything particularly wrong with that.

  18. #118
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    Re: Boys Can Have Periods Too!

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    Sure.
    I like it.
    Then boys can not have periods, transgendered boys can.

    ---------- Post added at 07:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:17 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    Sure. But the issue how do we define what is a "boy"
    You already have, several times in this thread:

    "Once you get the concept of identifying as a particular gender and you get the concept that the identity does not always match the birth sex, then the concept of "transgender" is pretty easy to understand."

    In your words here "birth sex", not the decided gender. Fairly clear (in a liberal speak kinda way).

  19. #119
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    Re: Boys Can Have Periods Too!

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post
    I like it.
    Then boys can not have periods, transgendered boys can.
    Again, those statements contradict each other.

    If boys cannot have periods, the ALL boys, including transgendered boys, cannot have periods

    If transgender boys can have periods, then SOME boys can have periods.

    Unless you are going to hold that transgendered boys are not boys, then you have to agree that some boys can have periods.



    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post
    You already have, several times in this thread:

    "Once you get the concept of identifying as a particular gender and you get the concept that the identity does not always match the birth sex, then the concept of "transgender" is pretty easy to understand."

    In your words here "birth sex", not the decided gender. Fairly clear (in a liberal speak kinda way).
    My statement mentions birth sex but it certainly doesn't say that that is the criteria we must use.

  20. #120
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    Re: Boys Can Have Periods Too!

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    Again, those statements contradict each other.
    You are incorrect, see below

    ---------- Post added at 09:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:58 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    Unless you are going to hold that transgendered boys are not boys, then you have to agree that some boys can have periods.

    This is an example of doublethink

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doublethink
    Doublethink is the act of simultaneously accepting two mutually contradictory beliefs as correct, often in distinct social contexts.

    ---------- Post added at 09:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:01 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    Again, those statements contradict each other.
    In this case trans means to identify as that which you are not.

    Per you, post #2
    https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/gender

    "Either of the two sexes (male and female), especially when considered with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones."


    So we have established there are TWO sexes (that some are born both or neither doesn't change this).

    To be a trans boy by definition means you are NOT a boy (though you identify as one), the criteria that you want to use to differentiate boys from girls doesn't change anything!

    Otherwise you are saying a person can be "A" and not "A" at the same time.

 

 
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