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  1. #181
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    Re: Boys Can Have Periods Too!

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    But one only needs to mention that they are "trans" if them being trans is relevant to the conversation. For example,...
    Agreed.
    For example:

    this thread.

  2. #182
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    Re: Boys Can Have Periods Too!

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    It is not the default position that every single thing that a teacher says during the class is on the test. Some information presented is on the test and the rest isn't on the test. I think that particular piece of information would be so basic that it isn't worth putting on the test. Maybe I'm right about that and maybe I'm wrong.

    But it's your argument that it will be put on the test so the burden is yours to support that.
    It is the default position that anything a teacher teaches may be tested. It would be your burden to explain how this is incorrect. Obviously, the exact questions on a test are not predictable, but a student is expected to be ready to answer any test question based on what is being taught. You are trying to make a rebuttal based on mere semantics. A math teacher may not put a specific equation on a test, but this does not mean the students should ignore the equation on the basis of not absolutely knowing the equation will be tested.

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    But then the burden on that issue is also yours. You are the one arguing that they way they are presenting the information is improper.
    I am arguing that it is not necessary or germane to the lesson being taught. Menstruation has nothing to do with the issue of transgenderism. If all tg people know their biological sex (which you have conceded that they do) and menstruation is based solely on one's biological sex, then what does it matter what social construct they choose to define themselves as?

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    But how about this:

    Lesson 1. Menstruation - Just the biological facts about the female reproductive system with no mention of transgenderism
    Lesson 2. Transgenderism - Teaches all of the pertinent information about transgenderism and mentions that transgendered boys are biologically girls and therefore menstruate.

    So it's quite easy to both teach the strict biological facts without introducing transgenderism and still teach about transgenderism at a later time.
    If menstruation is taught as a product of being a biological girl, then how does lesson #2 add to anyone's understanding? Again, it is superfluous. You may as well be saying in lesson #1 menstruation is taught as being linked to biology and lesson #2 is a reminder that menstruation is linked to biology. The point?

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    No, it's a FACT.

    It's a FACT that transgendered males are biologically female. It's also a FACT that transgendered males can have periods. I don't find the issue confusing at all nor do I think it will confuse school children.
    A fact? It is a social construct. The concept of what being transgender is, is not a fact. It is opinion. An opinion of which well-meaning people may disagree. As such, there is no legal definition of what it means. So, again, I ask, how does this belong in a lesson on biology?

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    The only ideological issue is whether we SHOULD consider transgendered males to be "boys" instead of "girls" and EITHER position, "yes" or "no" or "don't discuss it", is an ideological position. And going by the ideology of "the default position is to treat people with respect", we should consider them "boys". But then arguing that they should be considered "girls" or the issue just should not be brought up is also ideological. So there is no getting around ideology here and therefore criticizing what they are doing as "ideological" is responded with "so what?".

    So okay, ideology is inevitably involved in the issue and therefore the position they took as an ideological basis (the ideology of respect). But so what?
    If I simply am offering that the issue isn't discussed, exactly what ideological position have I taken?


    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    Your ideological viewpoint on the issue is noted.
    Again, what ideological position am I taking here?

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    But I can't think of any better place to teach about transgenderism than in a sex ed class. Where are you suggesting students learn about it instead? Or are you saying that it should not be taught at all?

    If so, that is very much an ideological viewpoint and one that I disagree with.
    You are moving the goal posts. We are specifically discussing the topic of menstruation, not sex ed in general. I have yet to hear any sort of explanation on how introducing the topic of transgenderism (a social construct) improves the understanding of menstruation (a biological function).
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  3. #183
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    Re: Boys Can Have Periods Too!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    Well, defect means broken. Not working correctly. Trans people are not exactly broken. They function. They have some challenges. This is not like a disease you need to cure.
    If, as you say, a Trans person has a physical abnormality that contributes to a state of affairs that is not desired and causes issues/challenges, why is offering some form of medical "cure" an issue if a Trans person so chose?
    If being Trans is at least partly due to something "abnormal or not working correctly" it seems to make sense...
    Last edited by Belthazor; October 10th, 2019 at 12:31 PM.

  4. #184
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    Re: Boys Can Have Periods Too!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    It is the default position that anything a teacher teaches may be tested.
    Moving the goalpost. Your original argument is that they WOULD be tested on it, not may be tested on it.

    I will consider the argument that they will be tested and graded on whether they confirm that boys can have periods to be withdrawn until I see support for this particular argument.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    I am arguing that it is not necessary or germane to the lesson being taught. Menstruation has nothing to do with the issue of transgenderism. If all tg people know their biological sex (which you have conceded that they do) and menstruation is based solely on one's biological sex, then what does it matter what social construct they choose to define themselves as?
    But there is absolutely no evidence that the issue is being introduced in the lesson on menstruation.

    In fact, the article in the OP seems to indicate otherwise. To quote:

    "School children will be taught that "all genders" can have periods in new sex education lessons"

    So it looks like they are not "adding" transgenderism to the lesson on menstruation but creating a NEW lesson about transgenderism where they will address menstruation.

    So transgenderism does not need to be taught during the lesson on menstruation but apparently that isn't happening. But transgenderism is being taught in its own lesson. What's wrong with that?

    And also, I do not accept your statement that transgenderism is a social construct and therefore that position will need to be supported before it can be forwarded as 'true" for this debate.



    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    If menstruation is taught as a product of being a biological girl, then how does lesson #2 add to anyone's understanding? Again, it is superfluous.
    It doesn't add further understanding of the biology of menstruation but it certainly adds understanding to the understanding of transgenderism. And as I think school children should learn about transgenderism, it's not superfluous to sex education in general (which is what the article was referring to).


    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    A fact? It is a social construct. The concept of what being transgender is, is not a fact. It is opinion. An opinion of which well-meaning people may disagree. As such, there is no legal definition of what it means. So, again, I ask, how does this belong in a lesson on biology?
    It is a FACT that transgendered people exist. This FACT is accepted by the medical and psychiatric community. Are you actually challenging this? If so, please directly state that you take the position that transgendered people don't actually exist so I know that that is a topic of debate.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    If I simply am offering that the issue isn't discussed, exactly what ideological position have I taken?
    You have taken the ideological position the issue should not be discussed.

    If the position that it SHOULD be taught is ideological then surely the position that it SHOULD NOT be taught is ideological as well.
    Last edited by mican333; October 11th, 2019 at 07:38 AM.

  5. #185
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    Re: Boys Can Have Periods Too!

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post
    If, as you say, a Trans person has a physical abnormality that contributes to a state of affairs that is not desired and causes issues/challenges, why is offering some form of medical "cure" an issue if a Trans person so chose?
    If being Trans is at least partly due to something "abnormal or not working correctly" it seems to make sense...
    Because not everyone reacts to it the same way. For some people, the dichotomy is maddening and we call that gender dysphoria. They often want to undergo some process to try and fix the situation, usually by changing their body or their recognition in society. For others, its an issue, but not one they want to take any dramatic action for. Others may actually revel in the dichotomy and enjoy both their male and female aspects. it's just not enough of a unified experience to really say its a defect the way say, scoliosis is.

    ---------- Post added at 12:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:10 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post
    I have generally used several adjectives at a time to avoid a semantic discussion.
    Seems a good approach.

    I get your point, but it is what most of the issue has been about.
    Then its rather misplaced I think. What the school policy actually is, matters way more than the provocative headline someone slapped on the article.
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  6. #186
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    Re: Boys Can Have Periods Too!

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    Moving the goalpost. Your original argument is that they WOULD be tested on it, not may be tested on it.

    I will consider the argument that they will be tested and graded on whether they confirm that boys can have periods to be withdrawn until I see support for this particular argument.
    If you really want to play semantics, have fun. I'd have figured you understood the point which is that students would be motivated to learn and support whatever the teacher was teaching in the belief that it would be graded. This means if the teacher says, there are 58 genders, then students will be expected to offer that answer if they are tested on it. As such, it would be fair to state that if the teacher tells the students there are 58 genders, then students will be encouraged to believe that there are 58 genders. Whether this is factually true or the teacher's opinion is irrelevant. The students will be expected to learn and repeat the information.


    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    But there is absolutely no evidence that the issue is being introduced in the lesson on menstruation.

    In fact, the article in the OP seems to indicate otherwise. To quote:

    "School children will be taught that "all genders" can have periods in new sex education lessons"

    So it looks like they are not "adding" transgenderism to the lesson on menstruation but creating a NEW lesson about transgenderism where they will address menstruation.
    You are extrapolating something which is not stated in the quote. It does not say they are creating a NEW lesson about tg. Support or retract this. All we know, and all I've been arguing, is that a lesson on menstruation needn't discuss tg.

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    So transgenderism does not need to be taught during the lesson on menstruation but apparently that isn't happening. But transgenderism is being taught in its own lesson. What's wrong with that?

    And also, I do not accept your statement that transgenderism is a social construct and therefore that position will need to be supported before it can be forwarded as 'true" for this debate.
    If tg isn't a social construct, then please share with the class its actual biological/scientific definition.

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    It doesn't add further understanding of the biology of menstruation but it certainly adds understanding to the understanding of transgenderism. And as I think school children should learn about transgenderism, it's not superfluous to sex education in general (which is what the article was referring to).
    Maybe students should learn about tg. I am not making an argument one way or the other. All I am arguing is that discussing tg in a lesson on menstruation is superfluous and ideological.

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    It is a FACT that transgendered people exist. This FACT is accepted by the medical and psychiatric community. Are you actually challenging this? If so, please directly state that you take the position that transgendered people don't actually exist so I know that that is a topic of debate.
    Ok. What is the definition? According to the NCTE
    "However, being transgender means different things to different people, according to the National Center for Transgender Equality (NCTE). "
    https://www.livescience.com/54949-tr...efinition.html

    I am not claiming tg people do not exist. I am claiming that the definition is subjective. It is not based in a biological truth. It is not defined by science. It isn't even defined by law. It is a social construct and its meaning differs from person to person.

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    You have taken the ideological position the issue should not be discussed.

    If the position that it SHOULD be taught is ideological then surely the position that it SHOULD NOT be taught is ideological as well.
    If I say we should not discuss Jesus in the lesson on menstruation, does this make me an atheist? I am not taking an ideological position. Unless you can describe the ideological position you are accusing me of taking, then I'll consider this argument invalid.
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  7. #187
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    Re: Boys Can Have Periods Too!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    If you really want to play semantics, have fun. I'd have figured you understood the point which is that students would be motivated to learn and support whatever the teacher was teaching in the belief that it would be graded. This means if the teacher says, there are 58 genders, then students will be expected to offer that answer if they are tested on it. As such, it would be fair to state that if the teacher tells the students there are 58 genders, then students will be encouraged to believe that there are 58 genders. Whether this is factually true or the teacher's opinion is irrelevant. The students will be expected to learn and repeat the information.
    Well, let's keep it to the actual topic which is "boys can have periods". And the difference between "WILL be tested on it" and "MAY be tested on it" is not a mere semantic difference.

    I see absolutely no support that students will be graded on whether they will be presented with a test question that says something like "True or False. Boys can have periods" and answer "true" or not.

    I think it is a significant point if they are being tested and graded on whether they agree to that statement when it is presented on a test and if that's what is happening, you have a point. But you have not supported that that is happening. You are just presenting that notion that it may be happening. When you support that it is, then you have point. Until then, you don't.



    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    You are extrapolating something which is not stated in the quote. It does not say they are creating a NEW lesson about tg. Support or retract this.
    Yes, it pretty much does.

    "School children will be taught that "all genders" can have periods in new sex education lessons"

    Okay, so there are new sex education lessons that teach that boys can have periods. It's not exactly a wild leap to think that a lesson that holds that boys can have periods is a lesson about transgenderism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    All we know, and all I've been arguing, is that a lesson on menstruation needn't discuss tg.
    Sure. And as far as I know, that isn't happening. There's is zero support that their lesson on menstruation is discussing tg at all. The article doesn't say "menstruation lessons". It says "new sex education lessons".

    So I don't so much challenge your statement about menstruation lessons as hold that it's irrelevant. It's pretty much a straw-man. When someone says it is or should be taught during the lesson on menstruation, then we can discuss that. Otherwise, it is like objecting to it being taught in math class. Yes, it should not be taught during math class but since it no one has shown that it is being taught then, it's not really something to debate.




    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    If tg isn't a social construct, then please share with the class its actual biological/scientific definition.
    Shifting the burden. If you are going to argue that it's a social construct, then the burden is on you to show that it is, not me to show that it isn't.



    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    Maybe students should learn about tg. I am not making an argument one way or the other. All I am arguing is that discussing tg in a lesson on menstruation is superfluous and ideological.
    Okay. But since I'm not arguing that it should be taught then and you haven't shown that it is, this argument is not particularly relevant to the actual situation.



    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    Ok. What is the definition? According to the NCTE
    [FONT="]"However, being transgender means different things to different people, according to the [/FONT]National Center for Transgender Equality[FONT="] (NCTE). "[/FONT]
    https://www.livescience.com/54949-tr...efinition.html

    I am not claiming tg people do not exist. I am claiming that the definition is subjective. It is not based in a biological truth. It is not defined by science. It isn't even defined by law. It is a social construct and its meaning differs from person to person.
    The definition I found is "denoting or relating to a person whose sense of personal identity and gender does not correspond with their birth sex" which corresponds to the definition I've always held. And you have not supported that there is no biological component in whether one is transgendered or not. In fact, there seems to be evidence that there is. In support:

    "The causes of transsexuality have been studied for decades. The most studied factors are biological. Certain brain structures in trans women have been found to be similar to cisgender women's as opposed to cis men's, and trans men's have been found to be similar to cis men's, even controlling for hormone use, which can also cause trans people's brains to become closer to those of cis people of the same gender. However, these studies are limited as they include a small number of tested individuals.[2] Brain structure differences have also been part of extensive research on biology and sexual orientation. Studies have also found that both androphilic and gynephilic trans women's brain function and responses are like cis women's and unlike cis men's, or are intermediate between the two. Likewise, studies such as Rametti's have found that trans men have male-like white matter patterns (even before using hormones), regardless of sexual orientation."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_transsexuality

    I don't really care to get into a full debate on how much biology plays but your statement that it's opinion or a social construct seems to be somewhat contradicted by scientific evidence and you've certainly provided no support that there is no biological component.




    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    If I say we should not discuss Jesus in the lesson on menstruation, does this make me an atheist? I am not taking an ideological position. Unless you can describe the ideological position you are accusing me of taking, then I'll consider this argument invalid.
    I am accusing you of taking the position that "boys can have periods" should not be taught in school at all, which is an ideological position. If your position is instead it's alright to teach "boys can have periods" in sex ed as long as it is pertinent to the specific lesson (such as a class about transgenderism instead of a class about menstruation) then I withdraw my accusation. But then it seems that we agree that it's alright to teach "boys can have periods" in sex ed class in general and therefore don't really have a disagreement.

    And if you do disagree with my position about teaching that in general, then your position is no less ideological than mine.

  8. #188
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    Re: Boys Can Have Periods Too!

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    I don't really care to get into a full debate on how much biology plays but your statement that it's opinion or a social construct seems to be somewhat contradicted by scientific evidence and you've certainly provided no support that there is no biological component.
    Interesting comment.
    Since, as you say, "biology only plays a part" in being Trans, that naturally means that it is not the "only" reason. So there does appear to be an element of choice involved also.


    Also, you haven't responded to post #181. I wanted to make sure you had seen it before I just assume you conceded the point.


    ---------- Post added at 04:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:48 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    Ok. What is the definition? According to the NCTE
    [FONT="]"However, being transgender means different things to different people, according to the [/FONT]National Center for Transgender Equality[FONT="] (NCTE). "[/FONT]
    https://www.livescience.com/54949-tr...efinition.html

    I am not claiming tg people do not exist. I am claiming that the definition is subjective. It is not based in a biological truth. It is not defined by science. It isn't even defined by law. It is a social construct and its meaning differs from person to person.
    Agreed.
    Per your link https://www.livescience.com/54949-tr...efinition.html :

    "Gender, on the other hand, is a societal construct that deals with the expected behaviors, roles and activities typically associated with the different sexes, the APA said. Gender roles, which vary across cultures, influence how people act and feel about themselves."

    I would say you are spot on!

    ---------- Post added at 04:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:52 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    Because not everyone reacts to it the same way.
    I don't think this answered my question. I specifically said "if a Trans person so chose?".

    That a given "cure" may work on one person and not another is immaterial in this case since the definition of Trans is so dramatically broad, it would suggest a broad range of "cures"...

    ---------- Post added at 04:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:57 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    Then its rather misplaced I think. What the school policy actually is, matters way more than the provocative headline someone slapped on the article.
    1. It is what this thread is about.
    2. Mican, among others, is fully supportive of that "misplaced idea" and actively support it, so I don't think I'm off that mark here at all.
    3. Incrementalism.
    Last edited by Belthazor; October 11th, 2019 at 05:19 PM.

  9. #189
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    Re: Boys Can Have Periods Too!

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post
    I don't think this answered my question. I specifically said "if a Trans person so chose?".

    That a given "cure" may work on one person and not another is immaterial in this case since the definition of Trans is so dramatically broad, it would suggest a broad range of "cures"...
    Let me see if I can simplify for you.

    It's too presumptive to call it a defect unless you are specific to a person's situation and it is a problem for them. In that instance, you could say it is a defect. But for another person, it wouldn't be the best word to use.

    1. It is what this thread is about.
    2. Mican, among others, is fully supportive of that "misplaced idea" and actively support it, so I don't think I'm off that mark here at all.
    3. Incrementalism.
    3. Incrementalism. = Slippery slope fallacy. (that is unless you can explain this in some greater detail)

    The thread is about the posted article, presumably, and related topics. I have my own position I argue for. I like it when people are accurate.

    You offered what you thought was a reasonable position.
    I pointed out that the article we are discussing takes that same position.
    You said: What about the headline?
    I responded that headlines are ******** and the actual school policy is what matters. You actually agree with the school policy.

    We could all argue that the slaughter of unicorns for their meet is a bad thing, and you might be right, but since there are no unicorns, its a pretty moot topic. You can argue against imaginary strawmen if you like, or you could accept that the schools actual policy is actually in line with what you suggested would be reasonable and maybe they aren't really that crazy or misguided.
    Feed me some debate pellets!

  10. #190
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    Re: Boys Can Have Periods Too!

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post
    Interesting comment.
    Since, as you say, "biology only plays a part" in being Trans, that naturally means that it is not the "only" reason. So there does appear to be an element of choice involved also.

    I did not way "biology only plays a part". I said "I don't really care to get into a full debate on how much biology plays" which makes no statement on how much biology plays.

    And the primary reason I wasn't seeking that debate is because as far as I know, the evidence is not conclusive either way. But it looks like biology certainly does play a role (and I have supported that) even if there is a choice element (and for the record, I personally doubt that there is), it is not "only a choice".

    But here's what I think on the issue.

    In simple terms, transgenderism is the body and brain being of different sexes (female body, male brain) so it would be kind of expected that one would find that the brain of a transgender person is similar to the brain of a cisgender person of the opposite sex and again, there is evidence that that is the case.

    And "not biological" does not default to "choice". There is also environmental factors which one does not choose either so even if it's not 100% biological, if the "leftover" is environment, then choice still plays no role. IMO, about the only "choice" transgender people have is to how to behave due to their transgenderism, similar to how gays have a choice to be openly gay or in the closet.

    So no, I don't think that there is much choice in whether one is transgendered or not. I think it's pretty much like sexual orientation in that respect. Just like I can't choose to be attracted to men, I can't choose to identify as a woman and just like a gay man can't choose to like women, a trans male can't choose to identify as a female.

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post
    Also, you haven't responded to post #181. I wanted to make sure you had seen it before I just assume you conceded the point.
    Thanks. I did miss it.

    But I'm not sure what I'm conceding. I mean, yes, mentioning a transgendered person is transgendered when discussing their transgenderism is indeed a time when it's appropriate to refer to them as transgendered. But my point is when one's transgenderism is not relevant to the conversation the person should just be referred aa a "boy" and not a "trans boy". So for MOST conversations, they should just be referred to as "boys", just like how you call cisgendered boys "boy" and only mention that they are cisgendered when it's relevant to the conversation.

    As an example, my brother is cisgendered and since that his cisgender status is relevant to THIS conversation, I am justified in calling him a cisgendered boy right now. But I certainly don't refer to him as a "cisgendered boy" when him being cisgendered is not relevant to the conversation (which is practically all of the time). Likewise outside of conversations like this, I refer to my transgender male friend as a "boy" just like do with my brother,

    Assuming you agree with my criteria of when to call transgendered boy simply "boy", this particular issue is settled. If you don't, then state your disagreement. I'm not absolutely certain we are on the same page on what the argument and if we aren't, hopefully this clears it up.

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    Re: Boys Can Have Periods Too!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    Let me see if I can simplify for you.

    It's too presumptive to call it a defect unless you are specific to a person's situation and it is a problem for them. In that instance, you could say it is a defect. But for another person, it wouldn't be the best word to use.
    Hmm, ok...

    So a Trans person (per you):
    1. has a physical abnormality that can predispose a person to a state of affairs where the brain and body don't seem to match (with regards to the m/f sexes).
    2. this can lead to diagnosable mental illness
    3. it appears there are factors besides genetics involved


    You make being Trans sound a lot like being an alcoholic?


    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    3. Incrementalism. = Slippery slope fallacy. (that is unless you can explain this in some greater detail)
    Again, see #1 & #2 above. You will note the vigor Mican has put into (your words) "that misplaced idea". He is hardly alone.

    --------

    I'm curious. What did you think of IBELSD "the most serious debater left" link from post #186:

    " https://www.livescience.com/54949-tr...efinition.html :

    "Gender, on the other hand, is a societal construct that deals with the expected behaviors, roles and activities typically associated with the different sexes, the APA said. Gender roles, which vary across cultures, influence how people act and feel about themselves."


    Seems a much more realistic view of the topic than what you and Mican are forwarding...

    ---------- Post added at 04:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:33 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    But I'm not sure what I'm conceding.
    That, with regards to the Op, it is not appropriate/good communication/etc to say "boys can have periods" in school lessons.....

    To say:
    "gender is a social construct, and all genders can have periods"
    would make more sense (if some one thought it was necessary in the first place).

    ---------- Post added at 05:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:58 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    In simple terms, transgenderism is the body and brain being of different sexes (female body, male brain) so it would be kind of expected that one would find that the brain of a transgender person is similar to the brain of a cisgender person of the opposite sex and again, there is evidence that that is the case.

    And "not biological" does not default to "choice". There is also environmental factors which one does not choose either so even if it's not 100% biological, if the "leftover" is environment, then choice still plays no role. IMO, about the only "choice" transgender people have is to how to behave due to their transgenderism, similar to how gays have a choice to be openly gay or in the closet.
    1. "Some" similarities have been found between "the brain of a transgender person is similar to the brain of a cisgender person of the opposite sex", but these are very limited similarities.
    2. My brother dated women exclusively till he was about 35. Now exclusively men. Sounds like he chose change to me.....
    Last edited by Belthazor; October 14th, 2019 at 04:36 PM.

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    Re: Boys Can Have Periods Too!

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post
    That, with regards to the Op, it is not appropriate/good communication/etc to say "boys can have periods".....

    To say:
    "gender is a social construct, and all genders can have periods"
    would make more sense (if some one thought it was necessary in the first place).
    I disagree. The OP is about a school having menstrual bins in the boys room. So if one asks the question "Why are there menstrual bins in the boys room?", the answer "Because some boys have periods" seems like a pretty spot-on response.


    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post
    1. "Some" similarities have been found between "the brain of a transgender person is similar to the brain of a cisgender person of the opposite sex", but these are very limited similarities.
    I see nothing in the support that I provided that said the similarities were very limited nor have you supported that they are. As far as I know, how significant the similarities are has not been determined but it definitely points to there being a biological factor. And I've seen no evidence that it's based on choice. As far as I can tell, you are just saying that choice is a factor but not backing it up with anything concrete.

    I think common sense points to it not being a choice. I can't choose to identify as a female so I have no choice in having a male gender so that would indicate that gender is not a choice. That's certainly not hard evidence but again, I see nothing that gives me reason to think it is a choice.


    Quote Originally Posted by Belthazor View Post
    2. My brother dated women exclusively till he was about 35. Now exclusively men. Sounds like he chose change to me.....
    He chose to change who he dated, yes.

    I could choose to date men. But I can't choose to be attracted to men. That's because sexual orientation is not a choice.

    I think the reason that people change from dating the opposite sex to the same sex is likely:
    1. They are attracted to both genders.

    and/or

    2. They are attracted to the same sex but felt considerable pressure to stay in the closet and therefore chose to date the opposite sex until they decided to be more true to themselves.

 

 
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