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  1. #1
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    Should Hex Speech be Illegal

    (I've been considering asking whether "hate speech" should be illegal, but thought the positions were too predictable and boring.)

    Today I read this article that the pushes the boundary of speech into attempted assault - the attempt to hex another person. Should hex speech be illegal, because it is an attempt to make something bad happen to someone, essentially an attempt at assault?

    Witchcraft is thriving in the US, with an estimated 1.5 million Americans now identifying as witches - more than the total number of Presbyterians. As Christianity declines across the country, paganism has swung to the mainstream, with witchcraft paraphernalia for sale on every high street and practises normalised across popular culture. In the past two years, it has also become darkly politicised.

    Dakota Bracciale, a 29-year-old transgender/queer witch and co-owner of Catland Books and witch shop in Brooklyn, is pleased with the outcome of the ritual hex placed on US Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh in October. The curse, carried out from Catland Books, was well attended by witches, atheists ad humanists - and was followed around the country on social media.

    Millennials, says Bracciale, are looking for spiritualism outside traditional religion. “The hex centres on the notion that we live in a universe of chaos, entropy, destruction, death, decay with a final ending of oblivion - scientists are telling us. So the witch does everything for themselves - there is no other help in this universe of decay and chaos. If you don’t get in the driver’s seat things will just get worse,” the witch said.

    In a wide-ranging discussion with the Telegraph, Bracciale, who described the interview questions as “sensationalist”, talked about political hexes and witchcraft in general.
    Bracciale is “absolutely” willing to cause physical harm through a hex - “no issue with that”. And while Bracciale would have been just as pleased with the new Supreme Court Justice’s death, resignation or physical disfigurement, the main goal of the Kavanaugh hex, and the three hexes on President Donald Trump from Catland Books this summer, was to “let them be exposed for who they are - especially as impotent men”. The curse began with a recitation of the Biblical scripture Psalm 109: 8: “let his days be few, let another take his office.” ..https://sg.news.yahoo.com/witchcraft...130445984.html

    I argue that putting a hex on someone is attempted assault, and should be considered a misdemeanor criminal offense. Whether you or I believe the hex is real is irrelevant, because the attacker believes it is real and is attempting to do physical harm to the target.
    "If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth." - Ronald Reagan

  2. #2
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    Re: Should Hex Speech be Illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    I argue that putting a hex on someone is attempted assault, and should be considered a misdemeanor criminal offense. Whether you or I believe the hex is real is irrelevant, because the attacker believes it is real and is attempting to do physical harm to the target.
    Then by logic, praying for another person to be harmed should likewise be illegal as it's basically the same thing.

    But either way, I disagree. Restrictions to free speech should be very limited and when it comes to harm, there needs to either be actual harm or it has to be shown that the victim was actually put in real danger by the speech before it's justifiable to infringe on one's right to free speech.

  3. #3
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    Re: Should Hex Speech be Illegal

    Bracciale is “absolutely” willing to cause physical harm through a hex - “no issue with that”. And while Bracciale would have been just as pleased with the new Supreme Court Justice’s death, resignation or physical disfigurement, the main goal of the Kavanaugh hex, and the three hexes on President Donald Trump from Catland Books this summer, was to “let them be exposed for who they are - especially as impotent men”.
    There really isn't much difference between this and Xtians trying to legislate their beliefs in order to force them on others. It's all just people acting in accordance with what they believe to be true and right. If the witch truly believes that the forces she's invoking are real and authoritative, and if those forces wish harm to come to someone, then Bracciale's readiness for that harm to be caused is nothing more than a true devotion to her beliefs. Further, if her beliefs are true and harm does actually come to those being hexed, then obviously such is their will and we have no choice but to accept that. It's a lot like how Xtians saying that hurricanes and natural disasters are the Xtian deity punishing those worthy of punishment, although that one backfired stupendously in New Orleans when churches were destroyed instead of the French Quarter and the churches were demanding cash from FEMA.

  4. #4
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    Re: Should Hex Speech be Illegal

    It's the same hoping for someone's failure should be illegal.

    Lock Limbaugh up!
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  5. #5
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    Re: Should Hex Speech be Illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    It's the same hoping for someone's failure should be illegal.

    Lock Limbaugh up!
    Exactly!
    No need for a trial. He is obviously guilty! The only question is should there even be a sentence, or should we just keep him in there?

  6. #6
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    Re: Should Hex Speech be Illegal

    Is hexing someone the same as praying for their harm? If so, then hexing should fall under the same laws as for praying. If not, then why not?

  7. #7
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    Re: Should Hex Speech be Illegal

    Interesting side bar on Psalm 109:8. Other than the weird usage of it by a witch, which raises all sorts of questions, this phrase is used against every president and probably every leader.

    For grins, I googled for Bush and came across a thread where a Democrat used it against him as kinda revenge for the Republicans for using it against Clinton. (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bap...17501/%3famp=1)

    Therein, they discuss the efficacy and the relevance of such a prayer. So how do the same words work for the Christians but not the Wiccans?

    If it’s just about *intent* then surely, it is irrelevant what people say - the OP is talking about “thought crime” rather than an actual crime, which is what hate speech is.

    As a Christian, Jesus does preach thought is as bad as a deed, so I understand the confusion from that perspective. But it does strike me as odd that wishing something bad would happen to someone could be considered a crime.

  8. #8
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    Re: Should Hex Speech be Illegal

    Hexing is nonsense so I don't think we need any laws against it. If you do it in a way that could constitute personal harassment, then it could be prosecuted under those laws.
    Feed me some debate pellets!

  9. #9
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    Re: Should Hex Speech be Illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    Hexing is nonsense so I don't think we need any laws against it. If you do it in a way that could constitute personal harassment, then it could be prosecuted under those laws.
    I think that’s the point of the OP. Even if it is nonsense to you, that doesn’t mean it is to others. White supremacy is also nonsense but their words and actions have real world consequences.

    In Germany it is illegal to invoke Nazism for example. In Russia, Scientology has been made illegal, and in many Islamic countries it’s blasphemy. And all of those ideas are nonsense also.

  10. #10
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    Re: Should Hex Speech be Illegal

    Proverbs 26:2 says, "Like a sparrow in its flitting, like a swallow in its flying, a curse that is causeless does not alight." According to this hex speech can't hurt anyone who is innocent, so there is no reason we should regulate it. A person who really intends it for harm might be guilty in God's sight but there is no way he can or should be held accountable under human law.
    The brutal, soul-shaking truth is that we are so earthly minded we are of no heavenly use.
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  11. #11
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    Re: Should Hex Speech be Illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by SharmaK View Post
    I think that’s the point of the OP. Even if it is nonsense to you, that doesn’t mean it is to others. White supremacy is also nonsense but their words and actions have real world consequences.

    In Germany it is illegal to invoke Nazism for example. In Russia, Scientology has been made illegal, and in many Islamic countries it’s blasphemy. And all of those ideas are nonsense also.
    If a political ideology advocates for general violence against others, it's not harmless. Whine supremacy killed millions of people. Hexes have killed zero people (so far as we can prove). I don't think you can effectively equate them.
    Feed me some debate pellets!

 

 

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