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  1. #1
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    Sentient Immatierial Spectral Vibrators Do Not Exist

    Scientists have discovered that women sometimes have orgasms in their sleep. While any number of explanations are available, none of these explanations effectively rule out the existence of sentient, immaterial, spectral vibrators causing these orgasms.

    Certainly, there are a number of biological/psychological components that could be said to play a role, but because we cannot be absolutely certain, even in the face of biological/psychological explanations, that they’re NOT caused by sentient, immaterial, spectral vibrators, it is reasonable to conclude that the evidence for sentient, immaterial, spectral vibrators is EQUAL to that of biological/psychological causes.

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  2. #2
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    Re: Sentient Immatierial Spectral Vibrators Do Not Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Dionysus View Post
    Scientists have discovered that women sometimes have orgasms in their sleep. While any number of explanations are available, none of these explanations effectively rule out the existence of sentient, immaterial, spectral vibrators causing these orgasms.

    Certainly, there are a number of biological/psychological components that could be said to play a role, but because we cannot be absolutely certain, even in the face of biological/psychological explanations, that they’re NOT caused by sentient, immaterial, spectral vibrators, it is reasonable to conclude that the evidence for sentient, immaterial, spectral vibrators is EQUAL to that of biological/psychological causes.

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    Well, possibilities do abound and should not be discounted out of hand:
    Perhaps these women had a delusion in their sleep of an orgasm and they didn't realize it for instance?

    All possibilities should be given equal weight if they are all logically possible, it's the fair thing to do.


    (aside, I think Jesus could/would make the most delicious lime sauce ever made...)

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  4. #3
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    Re: Sentient Immatierial Spectral Vibrators Do Not Exist

    All good points. (Your examples would fall under the category of biological/psychological explanations, btw.) The only logical conclusion is that, in the case of women who have experienced orgasms in their sleep, it is EQUALLY AS LIKELY that these were caused by sentient, immaterial, spectral vibrators as ANY biological/psychological explanations.

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    Re: Sentient Immatierial Spectral Vibrators Do Not Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Dionysus View Post
    All good points. The only logical conclusion is that, in the case of women who have experienced orgasms in their sleep, it is EQUALLY AS LIKELY that these were caused by sentient, immaterial, spectral vibrators as ANY biological/psychological causes.
    Yes, fair is good and should always be the direction of logic.

    Also, in case anyone is unclear, how one "feels about a subject" is just as much a fact as any other fact on the subject and should be treated this way.
    It is part of the truth of any subject.

    "Several" threads here on ODN support this (looking @ you JW thread http://www.onlinedebate.net/forums/s...rokee-or-Fraud)

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  7. #5
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    Re: Sentient Immatierial Spectral Vibrators Do Not Exist

    Ah, yes. All good points. For example, many people feel that the Sandy Hook massacre was hoax perpetrated by the government (probably Killary) in order to bolster government regulation to take away guns. What’s more, the government has in fact perpetrated deceptions on the general public in the past, therefore the only logical conclusion is that Sandy Hook, in terms of probability, is equally as likely to be a Killary hoax as it is to be a mass murder of children - these two possibilities should be given equal weight in public discourse.

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    Re: Sentient Immatierial Spectral Vibrators Do Not Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Dionysus View Post
    Ah, yes. All good points. For example, many people feel that the Sandy Hook massacre was hoax perpetrated by the government (probably Killary) in order to bolster government regulation to take away guns. What’s more, the government has in fact perpetrated deceptions on the general public in the past, therefore the only logical conclusion is that Sandy Hook, in terms of probability, is equally as likely to be a Killary hoax as it is to be a mass murder of children - these two possibilities should be given equal weight in public discourse.
    Yes, I used to hear this where I work a lot, but not as much lately.


    However the Twin Towers being a US gov't job isn't hardly even open to question, but I suppose we should give equal weight to terrorists being a possibility.

    This is what we are left with since the Dept of "Education" outlawed common sense some yrs ago....

  9. #7
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    Re: Sentient Immatierial Spectral Vibrators Do Not Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Dionysus View Post
    Scientists have discovered that women sometimes have orgasms in their sleep. While any number of explanations are available, none of these explanations effectively rule out the existence of sentient, immaterial, spectral vibrators causing these orgasms.

    Certainly, there are a number of biological/psychological components that could be said to play a role, but because we cannot be absolutely certain, even in the face of biological/psychological explanations, that they’re NOT caused by sentient, immaterial, spectral vibrators, it is reasonable to conclude that the evidence for sentient, immaterial, spectral vibrators is EQUAL to that of biological/psychological causes.

    Discuss
    I would only believe this is true under the following conditions:

    1. These spectral vibrators must already have been foretold in a text from thousands of years ago.

    2. The force powering the vibrator must be outside of this universe but not occupy any space and all of time - it must be immortal and eternal but at the same time unprovable otherwise it won't be true. And we must take it being true as a starting point and work backwards, ignoring contradictory evidence along the way.

    3. There must also be a bunch of texts cherry picked and cobbled together into a semi-coherent story to prove that these vibrators have always existed. And if any contradictions surface then we have to twist ourselves into a pretzel in order to resolve them; after all the Law of the Conservation of Reasoning says that more we have to twist reality to prove something true the more true it must be. In fact the more contradictions the better and if we can't resolve it we can always kill disbelievers since they've proven themselves to be traitors anyway.

    4. In addition to referencing these vibrators, there must also be outlandish claims of miracles - the more implausible the better since that would add to the authenticity and believe-ability of the whole thing. After all, why would anyone lie or make things up in order to have power over people? That it happens all the time throughout history is no indication and only shows how far man has fallen.

    5. We must also have thousands of people having died believing in this, since things can only be true if someone died for them: after all why would someone die for a lie? Therefore, if they did, then their beliefs must also be true. Although obvious it must be stated that this should only count for believers in the Great Vibrator in the sky; any people who die for other beliefs will end up in eternity with no orgasms ever.

    6. Also, the further away from modern science, the more believable the idea is: after all, the ancients obviously had more access to knowledge than today. So even though the proofs that they had thousands of years ago may have been lost, it is clear that they must have had them otherwise people wouldn't be making these claims in the first place. The advantage of ancient knowledge is that it is simple, and modern science is so complicated and difficult that its purpose must be to confuse people; obviously the simpler the explanation and the less to have to worry about the more true it is.

    7. Finally, the icing on the cake would be if we could use the spectral vibrator to persecute women who have orgasms manually or via intercourse. That way, we can subdue them and subjugate them into the kitchen where the great vibrator in the sky insists that they were created for.

    8. Also, any male that uses said spectral vibrator (though how or why escapes me) must be executed and any such impure thoughts be rigorously beaten out of young men who may stray in that direction.


    That said, it is also clear that whatever purports to be science can't possibly be true because they haven't answered every question in the universe, therefore, *none* of it is true. Equally, since the spiritualists have so much reasoning to support their side of things, and for a much longer period than science, the weight of evidence surely must point in that direction. But since I can't be bothered to learn either, it is easier to remain agnostic and not take any sides on anything just in case I'm wrong.

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  11. #8
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    Re: Sentient Immatierial Spectral Vibrators Do Not Exist

    All valid points, Sharmak. However, bear in mind that the opening post only demonstrates that the sentient, immaterial, spectral vibrator (SISV) cannot be DISPROVEN. The central claim of the opening post is that, because SISV cannot be DISPROVEN, its role as the cause of orgasms among sleeping women is EQUALLY AS LIKELY as any biological/psychological explanation. The claim isn’t that SISV DOES or DOES NOT exist (the title of the thread is only intended to be provocative); it is ONLY that the fact of its immaterial/spectral nature combined with its unfalsifiability puts it on EQUAL GROUND with LITERALLY ANY OTHER EXPLANATION.

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    Re: Sentient Immatierial Spectral Vibrators Do Not Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Dionysus View Post
    All valid points, Sharmak. However, bear in mind that the opening post only demonstrates that the sentient, immaterial, spectral vibrator (SISV) cannot be DISPROVEN. The central claim of the opening post is that, because SISV cannot be DISPROVEN, its role as the cause of orgasms among sleeping women is EQUALLY AS LIKELY as any biological/psychological explanation. The claim isn’t that SISV DOES or DOES NOT exist (the title of the thread is only intended to be provocative); it is ONLY that the fact of its immaterial/spectral nature combined with its unfalsifiability puts it on EQUAL GROUND with LITERALLY ANY OTHER EXPLANATION.
    Ah. Very clever. The old "because it can't be disproven it must be true" trick. I get it now and it's obvious once one thinks about it. Now how do we make money, draw power and get laid with this knowledge?

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  15. #10
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    Re: Sentient Immatierial Spectral Vibrators Do Not Exist

    Not quite; you’re bridging a gap that my argument isn’t. The argument ISN’T “it cannot be disproven, therefore it must be true”. My argument is “It cannot be disproven, therefore the likelihood of SISV being the cause of orgasms among sleeping women is just as likely as any biological/psychological explanation.”

    Consider, say, the existence of the “soul”. Everything we know for sure about consciousness tells us that the brain is necessary to produce consciousness in living persons. However, we cannot disprove the idea that the cause of consciousness is some sentient, immaterial, spectral component, so suddenly we have to take such a possbility seriously, and put it on equal footing with all biological/psychological explanations. So, in other words, the brain is a NECESSARY contributor to cause consciousness, but it is not a SUFFICIENT contributor to cause consciousness, all because someone said that consciousness is, maybe, magical and spooky.

    The only difference I can see about the explanations for consciousness and any other function of the human body is the supernatural component, so it seems to me that the supernatural element is the only reason people take it seriously. So in order to make create an unassailable stance, all one has to do is attach a supernatural anchor to it and viola! You’ve got yourself an explanantion that, technically, people just HAVE to contend with or else they’re being closed-minded and intellectually dishonest.

    Mental disorders are chemical imbalances in the brain? Nonsense! It’s just as likely that it’s the result of magical brain demons playing tricks.

    Cancer is the uncontrolled division of abnormal cells in the body leading to tissue death? But wait! It COULD be evil spirits!

    Etc, etc, etc.

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    Re: Sentient Immatierial Spectral Vibrators Do Not Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Dionysus View Post
    Not quite; you’re bridging a gap that my argument isn’t. The argument ISN’T “it cannot be disproven, therefore it must be true”. My argument is “It cannot be disproven, therefore the likelihood of SISV being the cause of orgasms among sleeping women is just as likely as any biological/psychological explanation.”

    Consider, say, the existence of the “soul”. Everything we know for sure about consciousness tells us that the brain is necessary to produce consciousness in living persons. However, we cannot disprove the idea that the cause of consciousness is some sentient, immaterial, spectral component, so suddenly we have to take such a possbility seriously, and put it on equal footing with all biological/psychological explanations. So, in other words, the brain is a NECESSARY contributor to cause consciousness, but it is not a SUFFICIENT contributor to cause consciousness, all because someone said that consciousness is, maybe, magical and spooky.

    The only difference I can see about the explanations for consciousness and any other function of the human body is the supernatural component, so it seems to me that the supernatural element is the only reason people take it seriously. So in order to make create an unassailable stance, all one has to do is attach a supernatural anchor to it and viola! You’ve got yourself an explanantion that, technically, people just HAVE to contend with or else they’re being closed-minded and intellectually dishonest.

    Mental disorders are chemical imbalances in the brain? Nonsense! It’s just as likely that it’s the result of magical brain demons playing tricks.

    Cancer is the uncontrolled division of abnormal cells in the body leading to tissue death? But wait! It COULD be evil spirits!

    Etc, etc, etc.

    I just watched Behind the Curve one Netflix about the people and the thinking behind the Flat Earth phenomenon. It was more about the people rather than the facts itself and it was astounding: the Flat Earthers were largely lonely people (the principle subjects living with the mother still and the other owned cats) who built this community around them that was so satisfying that they’d rather twist reality than to give up on their beliefs. There were two instances when they proved themselves wrong and they literally tried to hide the results and pretend it never happened.

    Perhaps this is the kind of thinking behind religion; worse since most religions don’t like apostasy. That a shared belief that makes everyone feel good and actually do good, is better than a disbelief and having to figure things out on one’s own. Who knows.

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  18. #12
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    Re: Sentient Immatierial Spectral Vibrators Do Not Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Dionysus View Post
    Scientists have discovered that women sometimes have orgasms in their sleep. While any number of explanations are available, none of these explanations effectively rule out the existence of sentient, immaterial, spectral vibrators causing these orgasms.

    Certainly, there are a number of biological/psychological components that could be said to play a role, but because we cannot be absolutely certain, even in the face of biological/psychological explanations, that they’re NOT caused by sentient, immaterial, spectral vibrators, it is reasonable to conclude that the evidence for sentient, immaterial, spectral vibrators is EQUAL to that of biological/psychological causes.
    Not really.

    Since orgasms are proven to be a physical phenomena (I'm pretty sure that scientists in the relevant field can explain exactly how they happen in a physical/mechanical sense), we have good reason to think that hypothesis that posit physical causes of mystery orgasms are more likely to be correct than hypothesis that posit metaphysical causes (like the spectral vibrator hypothesis).

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    Re: Sentient Immatierial Spectral Vibrators Do Not Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    Not really.

    Since orgasms are proven to be a physical phenomena (I'm pretty sure that scientists in the relevant field can explain exactly how they happen in a physical/mechanical sense), we have good reason to think that hypothesis that posit physical causes of mystery orgasms are more likely to be correct than hypothesis that posit metaphysical causes (like the spectral vibrator hypothesis).
    ”More than likely”? Well that’s just playing the odds. Sleep, as far as we know, is at the very least an altered state of consciousness. If you are going to argue that science has determined what the altered state of consciousness that is “sleep” (or that they understand consciousness, period) well enough to conclusively say that sleeping orgasms are strictly a product of the physical body, please support that. As far as I know, science has not answered that question conclusively.

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    Re: Sentient Immatierial Spectral Vibrators Do Not Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Dionysus View Post
    ”More than likely”? Well that’s just playing the odds. Sleep, as far as we know, is at the very least an altered state of consciousness. If you are going to argue that science has determined what the altered state of consciousness that is “sleep” (or that they understand consciousness, period) well enough to conclusively say that sleeping orgasms are strictly a product of the physical body, please support that. As far as I know, science has not answered that question conclusively.
    We can use what knowledge we do have to weigh the odds that A is more likely than B even if we don't have conclusive evidence that shows that A is true.

    We DO know what orgasms are and how they are typically caused. And therefore explanations that more closely align to our knowledge of the cause are logically more probable than those that don't. And since KNOWN orgasms are caused by PHYSICAL stimulation, a hypothesis that forwards a physical cause is more likely to be correct than one that forwards a metaphysical cause.

    We don't have to consider them equally likely just because neither have been conclusively to be comfirmed.

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    Re: Sentient Immatierial Spectral Vibrators Do Not Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    We can use what knowledge we do have to weigh the odds that A is more likely than B even if we don't have conclusive evidence that shows that A is true.

    We DO know what orgasms are and how they are typically caused. And therefore explanations that more closely align to our knowledge of the cause are logically more probable than those that don't. And since KNOWN orgasms are caused by PHYSICAL stimulation, a hypothesis that forwards a physical cause is more likely to be correct than one that forwards a metaphysical cause.

    We don't have to consider them equally likely just because neither have been conclusively to be comfirmed.
    This is a solid set of reasons to accept that sleeping orgasms require physical components, but I don't see anything in here that even remotely begins to rule out sentient, immaterial, spectral components, let alone the possible ways such things could possibly interact with our range of conscious states. Moreover, I certainly don't see anything here that diminishes in the least the likelihood of sentient, immaterial, spectral components being equally as possible as physical ones.

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    Re: Sentient Immatierial Spectral Vibrators Do Not Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Dionysus View Post
    This is a solid set of reasons to accept that sleeping orgasms require physical components, but I don't see anything in here that even remotely begins to rule out sentient, immaterial, spectral components, let alone the possible ways such things could possibly interact with our range of conscious states. Moreover, I certainly don't see anything here that diminishes in the least the likelihood of sentient, immaterial, spectral components being equally as possible as physical ones.
    I'm not saying that a metaphysical component has been ruled out.

    I'm just comparing the likelihood that a physical explanation is correct compared to a metaphysical explanation.

    Since all KNOWN orgasms are triggered by physical means (someone physically touching the genitals with body or object), we can conclude that orgasms of unknown origins are more likely to have been causes by something physical than by something metaphysical.

    That doesn't mean that a spectral vibrator definitely didn't do it but just that a physical explanation is more likely to be true given the knowledge that we do have.

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    Re: Sentient Immatierial Spectral Vibrators Do Not Exist

    [QUOTE=mican333;564220]I'm not saying that a metaphysical component has been ruled out.

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    I'm just comparing the likelihood that a physical explanation is correct compared to a metaphysical explanation.

    Since all KNOWN orgasms are triggered by physical means (someone physically touching the genitals with body or object), we can conclude that orgasms of unknown origins are more likely to have been causes by something physical than by something metaphysical.

    That doesn't mean that a spectral vibrator definitely didn't do it but just that a physical explanation is more likely to be true given the knowledge that we do have.
    But that doesn't affect likelihood at all. Even if you have a complete physical explanation of the phenomenon, nothing about that physical explanation affects the likelihood of the possible Sentient/Immaterial/Spectral explanation of the phenomenon. It's possible that the Sentient/Immaterial/Spectral component is every bit as necessary as the physical components.

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    Re: Sentient Immatierial Spectral Vibrators Do Not Exist

    [QUOTE=Dionysus;564229]
    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    I'm not saying that a metaphysical component has been ruled out.

    But that doesn't affect likelihood at all. Even if you have a complete physical explanation of the phenomenon, nothing about that physical explanation affects the likelihood of the possible Sentient/Immaterial/Spectral explanation of the phenomenon. It's possible that the Sentient/Immaterial/Spectral component is every bit as necessary as the physical components.
    If it can only be A or B and you've determine that it's 99% likely that the A is right, then you've determined that it's 1% likely that B is right.

    So it does effect likelihood.

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    Re: Sentient Immatierial Spectral Vibrators Do Not Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    If it can only be A or B and you've determine that it's 99% likely that the A is right, then you've determined that it's 1% likely that B is right.

    So it does effect likelihood.
    Who said it has to be either A or B? On what basis could anyone assume such a thing? How does completely describing physical components reduce the likelihood at all of Sentient/Immaterial/Spectral components?

    So it doesn't affect likelihood.

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    Re: Sentient Immatierial Spectral Vibrators Do Not Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Dionysus View Post
    Who said it has to be either A or B? On what basis could anyone assume such a thing? How does completely describing physical components reduce the likelihood at all of Sentient/Immaterial/Spectral components?

    So it doesn't affect likelihood.
    If the orgasm is not caused by the spectral vibrator then it's caused by something else.

    So the options are:

    A. Spectral Vibrator
    B. Something else

    And out of the myriad of options of "something else" there are indeed physical options.

    Now is there a communication problem between us regarding "cause"? As in you are not positing that the SV causes orgasms but just has some kind of undetermined role in them?

 

 
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