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Thread: Gay Reparations

  1. #261
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    Re: Gay Reparations

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    By, I believe, setting a very low bar for what constitutes persecution and, I believe, that you've set the bar so low that things that are technically "persecution" by your standard do not deserve reparations.

    And I assume you hold the OPINION that you've not set the bar so low. And in response to that, I say your opinion is noted but opinion is not a valid basis of support.

    So you aren't getting past the notion that your standard for reparation-worthy mistreatment of the gay community is based on your own subjective standard and therefore not a valid basis of support.
    I gave a definition of persecution and supported that what is and has happened to the gay community fits that definition. Where it lands on your mythical "bar" is irrelevant as the reparations will reflect the severity of the persecution. This can be done objectively so the only opinion left is yours which is irrelevant.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  2. #262
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    Re: Gay Reparations

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    I gave a definition of persecution and supported that what is and has happened to the gay community fits that definition. Where it lands on your mythical "bar" is irrelevant as the reparations will reflect the severity of the persecution.
    Begging the question. You can't start with the premise that reparations will be paid to support that reparations should be paid.

    And you have not shown that the persecution that the gay community is suffering today is severe enough to warrant reparations.

  3. #263
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    Re: Gay Reparations

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    Begging the question. You can't start with the premise that reparations will be paid to support that reparations should be paid.
    Explain how I did that, I don't see it.

    ---------- Post added at 12:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:54 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    And you have not shown that the persecution that the gay community is suffering today is severe enough to warrant reparations.
    I have shown that the gay community is suffering persecution today in addition to the threat of further persecution (from the President and others) and that that combined with the legacy of persecution that happened in the past (not Saturday 8/31) is enough to warrant reparations.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  4. #264
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    Re: Gay Reparations

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    I have shown that the gay community is suffering persecution today in addition to the threat of further persecution (from the President and others) and that that combined with the legacy of persecution that happened in the past (not Saturday 8/31) is enough to warrant reparations.
    No. You just claimed that it’s enough to warrant reparations. You have not supported that it is.

    So I Challenge to support a claim. you to SUPPORT OR RETRACT that all of that stuff combined warrants reparations.

    And remember, claims of support is not support.

  5. #265
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    Re: Gay Reparations

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post

    So I Challenge to support a claim. you to SUPPORT OR RETRACT that all of that stuff combined warrants reparations.

    And remember, claims of support is not support.
    "All of that stuff" is persecution. Persecution is an injustice that must be rectified. One of the ways we rectify injustices in through reparations. I've repeated several times, do not deny this, that the gay community is currently suffering as to its SES as a result of persecution. Reparations will alleviate this. Reparations are warranted.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  6. #266
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    Re: Gay Reparations

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    "All of that stuff" is persecution. Persecution is an injustice that must be rectified. One of the ways we rectify injustices in through reparations. I've repeated several times, do not deny this, that the gay community is currently suffering as to its SES as a result of persecution. Reparations will alleviate this. Reparations are warranted.
    Let's stop going around in circle. I'm not challenging your assertion that a persecution or an injustice has occurred because I don't want to get into a semantic debate. So the issue is not whether persecutions occurred but whether they were bad enough to warrant reparations. And you have continuously dodged the issue of whether the persecutions were bad enough to warrant reparations.

    So again, I Challenge to support a claim. you to SUPPORT OR RETRACT that the persecution was at a level that warrants reparations.

    And remember, claims of support is not support.
    Last edited by mican333; September 1st, 2019 at 06:25 AM.

  7. #267
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    Re: Gay Reparations

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    Let's stop going around in circle. I'm not challenging your assertion that a persecution or an injustice has occurred because I don't want to get into a semantic debate. So the issue is not whether persecutions occurred but whether they were bad enough to warrant reparations. And you have continuously dodged the issue of whether the persecutions were bad enough to warrant reparations.

    So again, I Challenge to support a claim. you to SUPPORT OR RETRACT that the persecution was at a level that warrants reparations.

    And remember, claims of support is not support.
    They are/were bad enough to have a lasting effect on the community, therefore they warrant reparations. Similarly to the example of reparations for slavery I posted - not the same mind you.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  8. #268
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    Re: Gay Reparations

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    They are/were bad enough to have a lasting effect on the community, therefore they warrant reparations.
    I Challenge to support a claim. you to SUPPORT OR RETRACT that the lasting effects on the community are severe enough warrants reparations.
    Last edited by mican333; September 1st, 2019 at 09:27 AM.

  9. #269
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    Re: Gay Reparations

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    I Challenge to support a claim. you to SUPPORT OR RETRACT that the lasting effects on the community are severe enough warrants reparations.
    Already done. I've supported that the gay community, as a result of persecution, has disproportionately higher problems that the rest of the population. I shouldn't have to repeat this over and over again. If you have a specific question about the support please post it. Oh, and these problems persist in case you're going to go back to the "today" argument, young gay people are still being thrown out of their homes because of a misguided prevailing social attitude.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  10. #270
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    Re: Gay Reparations

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    Already done.
    Claims of support is not support.



    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    I've supported that the gay community, as a result of persecution, has disproportionately higher problems that the rest of the population.
    But that's not what I asked you to support. What I said was:

    I Challenge to support a claim. you to SUPPORT OR RETRACT that the lasting effects on the community are severe enough warrants reparations.

    Saying there is SOME effect does not support that the effect is severe enough warrants reparations.

  11. #271
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    Re: Gay Reparations

    Finding on support of a claim.

    Cowboy's argument that the persecution against the gay community warrants reperations was challenged. In defense Cowboy offered this comment:

    They are/were bad enough to have a lasting effect on the community, therefore they warrant reparations.
    This is a non sequitor, it does not follow. Because something has a long lasting effect on a community does not invariably mean it warrants reperations. We know that all parties here know this from the following quote: "One of the ways we rectify injustices in through reparations." If there are other ways to rectify injustices it logically follows that it isn't necessarily the case that injustice requires reperations. Thus, a defense must be offered as to why reperations are the appropriate remedy to this injustice. This claim is unsupported until such a defense is offered.

    Any questions or challenges regarding this ruling should be addressed via PM or in an Ask The Staff thread.
    Last edited by mican333; September 2nd, 2019 at 09:32 AM.
    "Suffering lies not with inequality, but with dependence." -Voltaire
    "Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.” -G.K. Chesterton
    Also, if you think I've overlooked your post please shoot me a PM, I'm not intentionally ignoring you.


  12. #272
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    Re: Gay Reparations

    I've unlocked this thread for now. Questions or objections to the ruling above should be asked in Ask the Staff. Additional debate or furthering of this line of argument is fine, as long as it is supported. If this thread is an issue again, I'll close it permanently.
    "Suffering lies not with inequality, but with dependence." -Voltaire
    "Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.” -G.K. Chesterton
    Also, if you think I've overlooked your post please shoot me a PM, I'm not intentionally ignoring you.


  13. #273
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    Re: Gay Reparations

    I've locked the thread again pending moderately review

 

 
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