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  1. #21
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    Re: Police Officers Complain About Being Asked to Leave Starbucks

    Quote Originally Posted by thrashee View Post
    I'm not making any sort of claim as to rationality. I'm saying it doesn't matter--in life, you're going to encounter people in certain demographics who may make you uncomfortable for a very wide variety of reasons.

    So what? Whether you're a homophobe who feels uncomfortable around gay couples or a victim of police brutality who feels triggered by the presence of cops, your own personal issues shouldn't dictate who can or cannot share the public space around you.

    This is called being an adult.
    You're saying feeling "icky" at seeing two men holding hands is the same as being afraid of 6 large officers with weapons and dogs and cruisers and handcuffs and all kinds of physical training and authority that can really ruin your day.

    Being an adult is deescalating the situation (which they did) and then reaching out and pursuing the root cause and a solution as opposed to getting pissy on facebook.

    ---------- Post added at 10:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:58 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by thrashee View Post

    The expectation that you can complain about such circumstances in order to hand-craft a "safe space" around you in public is patently absurd and self-serving.
    I tend to agree.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  2. #22
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    Re: Police Officers Complain About Being Asked to Leave Starbucks

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    You're saying feeling "icky" at seeing two men holding hands is the same as being afraid of 6 large officers with weapons and dogs and cruisers and handcuffs and all kinds of physical training and authority that can really ruin your day.
    Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Because you are attempting to rationalize how one's triggered feelings towards one group is somehow more rational than the triggered feelings towards the other. The problem here is that feelings aren't rational, are they?

    Being an adult is deescalating the situation (which they did) and then reaching out and pursuing the root cause and a solution as opposed to getting pissy on facebook.
    So they were they adults in the situation, but not in the subsequent reactions on Facebook? And?
    "Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we're the imagination of ourselves." --Bill Hicks

  3. #23
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    Re: Police Officers Complain About Being Asked to Leave Starbucks

    Quote Originally Posted by thrashee View Post
    So they were they adults in the situation, but not in the subsequent reactions on Facebook? And?
    Well, yes. Which is kind of backwards when you think about it. In the heat of the moment they did the right thing and left. Yet upon reflection - I don't know, maybe it ate at them - and when they had time to craft appropriate responses they lashed out.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  4. #24
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    Re: Police Officers Complain About Being Asked to Leave Starbucks

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    Well, yes. Which is kind of backwards when you think about it. In the heat of the moment they did the right thing and left. Yet upon reflection - I don't know, maybe it ate at them - and when they had time to craft appropriate responses they lashed out.
    Let's be fair, though. The Tempe Officers Association lashed out--not the actual officers involved. Now maybe they had a large hand in that response, but as you already noted, maybe they didn't and it was just the sort of fraternity response you might expect out of such an association (i.e., a union).

    I still don't understand what your gripe here really is. The officers gracefully handled the situation and left as asked--something we can all commend. The association representing these officers rightfully complained on social media about how they were treated--as we can all reasonably expect any association to do when members of said organization were essentially discriminated against.

    What's the problem here? What's the bone to pick?
    "Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we're the imagination of ourselves." --Bill Hicks

  5. #25
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    Re: Police Officers Complain About Being Asked to Leave Starbucks

    Quote Originally Posted by thrashee View Post
    Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Because you are attempting to rationalize how one's triggered feelings towards one group is somehow more rational than the triggered feelings towards the other. The problem here is that feelings aren't rational, are they?
    I suppose, if that's how you experience the world with everything being even. I can't say I find seeing the nazi flag comparable to the rainbow flag. Maybe it's possible. If you're wholeheartedly convinced that the gay lifestyle represents death and all that. Sure. Would that be rational?
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  6. #26
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    Re: Police Officers Complain About Being Asked to Leave Starbucks

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    I suppose, if that's how you experience the world with everything being even. I can't say I find seeing the nazi flag comparable to the rainbow flag. Maybe it's possible. If you're wholeheartedly convinced that the gay lifestyle represents death and all that. Sure. Would that be rational?
    I'm sorry, but this is just too specious to entertain. Your formula is essentially Police = right wing = Nazis, so any discrimination against them is justified.

    It is precisely this kind of lazy and fallacious equivocation that has our current sociopolitical environment so fractured. It is a net drain on our collective well-being, regardless of whatever moral trappings you seem to think warrants it. Please stop playing into this kind of thinking. It does no one any good. Be better than this.
    "Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we're the imagination of ourselves." --Bill Hicks

  7. #27
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    Re: Police Officers Complain About Being Asked to Leave Starbucks

    Quote Originally Posted by thrashee View Post
    I still don't understand what your gripe here really is. The officers gracefully handled the situation and left as asked--something we can all commend. The association representing these officers rightfully complained on social media about how they were treated--as we can all reasonably expect any association to do when members of said organization were essentially discriminated against.

    What's the problem here? What's the bone to pick?
    Claiming of special privilege ("how dare you ask me to leave") by members of an organization who's members are largely republican and right leaning*. A side which has made it their mantra that businesses should be able to serve or not serve whomever they want. Further, arguing their point by envoking how tough aspects of their jobs are - having to work on the fourth - also a mantra on the right of how you're not entitled to a job and if you'd don't like it lump it.

    *That's a generality of law enforcement all over, I don't know anything about the particular leanings of this department or it's members.

    ---------- Post added at 11:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:32 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by thrashee View Post
    Your formula is essentially Police = right wing = Nazis, so any discrimination against them is justified.
    No, it isn't.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  8. #28
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    Re: Police Officers Complain About Being Asked to Leave Starbucks

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    Claiming of special privilege ("how dare you ask me to leave") by members of an organization who's members are largely republican and right leaning*. A side which has made it their mantra that businesses should be able to serve or not serve whomever they want. Further, arguing their point by envoking how tough aspects of their jobs are - having to work on the fourth - also a mantra on the right of how you're not entitled to a job and if you'd don't like it lump it.
    It is not a "special privilege" to expect that you are not asked to leave a public space because others may not welcome your presence there. See the Civil Rights Act of 1964 for further clarification.

    Your attempt at tying this into a political leaning either way is, indeed, specious. You have no idea how the officers involved, nor the organization itself, leans politically. And more importantly: it doesn't matter anyway. This is a spectacularly transparent attempt at leveraging one's political bias for the justification of how one is received and thus treated.

    In other words, it's an excuse for discrimination.

    As I said before: do better. Be better.
    "Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we're the imagination of ourselves." --Bill Hicks

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  10. #29
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    Re: Police Officers Complain About Being Asked to Leave Starbucks

    Quote Originally Posted by thrashee View Post
    See the Civil Rights Act of 1964 for further clarification.
    That specified police officers? Where would I find them mentioned in that act?

    ---------- Post added at 07:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:14 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by thrashee View Post
    It is not a "special privilege" to expect that you are not asked to leave a public space because others may not welcome your presence there.
    It's a privately owned business (open to the public).

    ---------- Post added at 07:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:17 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by thrashee View Post

    Your attempt at tying this into a political leaning either way is, indeed, specious. You have no idea how the officers involved, nor the organization itself, leans politically. And more importantly: it doesn't matter anyway. This is a spectacularly transparent attempt at leveraging one's political bias for the justification of how one is received and thus treated.
    Is it? (regardless, I admitted as much)

    The chart in this article shows the police in Arizona off to the right compared with the population.
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  11. #30
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    Re: Police Officers Complain About Being Asked to Leave Starbucks

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    It's a privately owned business (open to the public).
    It's a public accommodation.

    The chart in this article shows the police in Arizona off to the right compared with the population.
    Thanks for the link. But assuming these officers and the organization swings right, what's the point for the purpose of this thread?
    "Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we're the imagination of ourselves." --Bill Hicks

  12. #31
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    Re: Police Officers Complain About Being Asked to Leave Starbucks

    Quote Originally Posted by thrashee View Post
    It's a public accommodation.
    Agreed. Not all businesses are public accommodations so that term defines the situation better. There has to be a rational and justifiable reason to exclude someone from a public accommodation based on an immutable characteristic of an individual, right?

    ---------- Post added at 12:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:15 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by thrashee View Post
    Thanks for the link. But assuming these officers and the organization swings right, what's the point for the purpose of this thread?
    Comparison and contrast of two different incidents. (?)
    "Real Boys Kiss Boys" -M.L.

  13. #32
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    Re: Police Officers Complain About Being Asked to Leave Starbucks

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyX View Post
    Agreed. Not all businesses are public accommodations so that term defines the situation better. There has to be a rational and justifiable reason to exclude someone from a public accommodation based on an immutable characteristic of an individual, right?
    If we're looking at something like the Civil Rights Act and those protected characteristics, yes.

    Comparison and contrast of two different incidents. (?)
    Ok.
    "Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we're the imagination of ourselves." --Bill Hicks

 

 
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