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  1. #1
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    Immanuel or Yeshua?

    I have a good question, can anybody explain the discrepency in why Joseph named Mary's son "Jesus/Yeshua" and not "Immanuel"?

    These are the verse's that im talking about in the books of Isaiah (OT) and Matthew (NT).

    Quote Originally Posted by Isaiah 7:14
    Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew 1:22-25
    22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

    23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

    24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:

    25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.


    I know that Jesus is the English translation of the Greek translation (Iesous) of the Hebrew name "Ye(ho)shua" which is in itself a variation of the name "Joshua". But Jesus is clearly named Jesus/Yeshua and not Immanuel.

    So what happened?
    Do or do not, there is no try. - Master Jedi Yoda
    He's Kermit on acid who happens to carry a big stick when pissed off. Big deal. - Apokalupsis
    Actually, didn't Frank Oz do Bert as well? We're cousins! - Withnail in reference to Bert and Yoda

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by RTShatto
    I have a good question, can anybody explain the discrepency in why Joseph named Mary's son "Jesus/Yeshua" and not "Immanuel"?

    These are the verse's that im talking about in the books of Isaiah (OT) and Matthew (NT).

    [/size][/font]

    I know that Jesus is the English translation of the Greek translation (Iesous) of the Hebrew name "Ye(ho)shua" which is in itself a variation of the name "Joshua". But Jesus is clearly named Jesus/Yeshua and not Immanuel.

    So what happened?
    Alright, I got this from Yeshua.com:

    Yosef (Joseph), son of David, do not be afraid to take Miryam home with you as your wife; for what has been conceived in her is from the Ruach HaKodesh (Holy Spirit). She will give birth to a son, and you are to name him Yeshua because he will save his people from their sins.” Mattityahu (Matthew) 1:20b-21
    Our Messiah was named “Yeshua” for the very thing he was sent to do: to “save [Hebrew: yeshu'ah] his people from their sins.” “He was pierced for our transgressions, crushed for our iniquity...” Yeshua died for our sins; he takes sin, becoming sin itself. God reconciles the world to himself in Messiah, not counting men's sins against them. (Isaiah 53:5, 1 Corinthians 15:3, John 1:29, 2 Corinthians 5:21, 2 Corinthians 5:19)

    You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Messiah died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Messiah died for us. Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Yeshua HaMashiach, through whom we have now received reconciliation. (Romans 5:6-11, written by a Jewish Pharisee in the first century named Sha'ul)
    Yeshua died for us to ransom us for God, to reconcile us to God, thus enabling sinful man to be changed and able to approach Adonai as holy ones, our way to eternal life made clear. Messiah died for our deliverance so that we may die to our sins and live for righteousness once and for all—he did what mere animal sacrifice could picture, but never accomplish. (Hebrews 2:9, Revelation 5:9, Colossians 1:21-22, 2 Timothy 1:10, 1 Timothy 2:3-6; 1 Peter 2:24, Hebrews 9:12-14a)

    Adonai raised Yeshua from the dead to deliver us and make us righteous. Yeshua's resurrection gives us something in which to put our trust, revealing to us the fullness of the Good News by making us dead to sin and alive to God. As joint-heirs with Yeshua, we partake of his inheritance. In Messiah, we are no longer under any condemnation, we belong to a body of many parts, and we are sanctified, called to be holy, and share in all God's promises. In Him we are a new creation, we are justified by faith, sons of God, resurrected with Messiah, enslaved to Torah, and seated with Him in heaven. (Romans 10:9; 4:25; 1 Corinthians 15:17; 2 Timothy 2:8; Romans 6:1-11; Romans 8:1, 12:5; 1 Corinthians 1:2, 2 Corinthians 1:20, 5:17; Galatians 2:16, 3:26; Ephesians 2:6)

    Hopefully that clears things up a little bit.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by RTShatto
    I have a good question, can anybody explain the discrepency in why Joseph named Mary's son "Jesus/Yeshua" and not "Immanuel"?

    These are the verse's that im talking about in the books of Isaiah (OT) and Matthew (NT).

    [/size][/font]

    I know that Jesus is the English translation of the Greek translation (Iesous) of the Hebrew name "Ye(ho)shua" which is in itself a variation of the name "Joshua". But Jesus is clearly named Jesus/Yeshua and not Immanuel.

    So what happened?
    Also, here is a little more explanation of the name "Jesus":

    The Bible was not written in English. What we read in English today are translations from other languages. The "New Testament" was written in Greek. Hence, the name "Jesus" is found nowhere in the Scriptures—it is a translation of the Greek name "Iesous" (pronounced "[ee]yeh-sooce"). "Iesous" came over into the Latin "Jesu" (pronounced "yehsoo") and finally into English as "Jesus." So in the most technical sense, saying "Jesus" is saying a twice-removed translation of the name we find in the "New Testament" Scriptures.

    When we move backwards, we also find that "Iesous" is itself a translation of another name. According to Matthew 1:21, we find the meaning of the name that is translated "Jesus" in English. It says, "he will save his people from their sins." In the Hebrew, the name "Yehoshua" (translated "Joshua" in English) means "the Lord (Adonai) saves". Also in Hebrew, the word for "salvation" is "yeshuah'". Finally, we also find a contraction of "Yehoshua" in the Hebrew Scriptures in the form of "Yeshua," which means, "he will save" (just like in Matthew 1:21). We find this name in the Chronicles as well as Ezra and Nehemiah, usually translated in English "Jeshua".

    So, here is the evolution of the name Yeshua:

    Yeshua » Iesous » Jesu » Jesus
    (Hebrew)(Greek)(Latin)(English)
    And here is what I could find about "Immanuel," from wikipedia.com:




    Immanuel or Emmanuel (Hebrew עמנו אל), meaning "God is with us" in Hebrew, is a title used in the Book of Isaiah in the Old Testament. In the King James Bible, the relevant verse runs like this:

    7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.


    There is considerable dispute about the precise meaning and application of this verse, but Christians believe it to be a prophecy of the birth of Jesus, who is therefore sometimes called Immanuel or Emmanuel. It is used as first name among Christians. Examples are Immanuel Kant, Vittorio Emmanuele I of Italy, the bullfighter Manolete and the Emmanuelle erotic films.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinBrowning
    but Christians believe it to be a prophecy of the birth of Jesus, who is therefore sometimes called Immanuel or Emmanuel. It is used as first name among Christians.
    This is what I find very confusing, Jesus was sometimes called Immanuel? I know I havent read the whole of the New Testament, but is there a single verse in there that states that Jesus/Yehoshua or Yeshua was ever called Immanuel?

    Ive heard some stories on the internet about Jesus being called Immanuel Ben Joseph in some cases, but the sites I have seen that dont back that up with any scripture.

    Just so you know, Immanuel Ben Joseph means Immanuel son of Joseph. But that in itself is a contradiction because Immanuel (if thats what Jesus/Yehoshua or Yeshua was called) wouldnt have been called son of Joseph. But I guessed if he walked around calling himself Immanuel Ben God/Addai (who called god addai?)/El/Hashem would have ensured his death...but then again he was killed for proclaiming to be the son of god.
    Do or do not, there is no try. - Master Jedi Yoda
    He's Kermit on acid who happens to carry a big stick when pissed off. Big deal. - Apokalupsis
    Actually, didn't Frank Oz do Bert as well? We're cousins! - Withnail in reference to Bert and Yoda

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by RTShatto
    This is what I find very confusing, Jesus was sometimes called Immanuel? I know I havent read the whole of the New Testament, but is there a single verse in there that states that Jesus/Yehoshua or Yeshua was ever called Immanuel?

    Ive heard some stories on the internet about Jesus being called Immanuel Ben Joseph in some cases, but the sites I have seen that dont back that up with any scripture.

    Just so you know, Immanuel Ben Joseph means Immanuel son of Joseph. But that in itself is a contradiction because Immanuel (if thats what Jesus/Yehoshua or Yeshua was called) wouldnt have been called son of Joseph. But I guessed if he walked around calling himself Immanuel Ben God/Addai (who called god addai?)/El/Hashem would have ensured his death...but then again he was killed for proclaiming to be the son of god.
    I see what you mean, I don't ever recall Jesus being called Immanuel by anybody in the New Testament. Maybe Apok can help us figure it out.

  6. #6
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    Matthew 1
    23"The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel"[1] --which means, "God with us."

    I just did a quick search for this because I would really like for you guys to keep posting. Been very informative. I wont debate this topic because I am clueless..lol

    KB--Any clue as to what this is refferencing to?

  7. #7
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    Its supposed to fulfill (SP?) Old Testament scripture of the coming messiah (Isaiah 7:14)

    I wish we could get a Jewish perspective on this :(
    Do or do not, there is no try. - Master Jedi Yoda
    He's Kermit on acid who happens to carry a big stick when pissed off. Big deal. - Apokalupsis
    Actually, didn't Frank Oz do Bert as well? We're cousins! - Withnail in reference to Bert and Yoda

  8. #8
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    Immanuel is ancient Hebrew meaining "God is with us".

    Without getting into linguistis and meanings of ancient laguages...

    Suffice it to say that it is not unlike "NEO" being the "ONE" and also being "Mr. Anderson"....

    WOW I can't belived I used the Matrix to explain religion....does that make me a liberal?

    Now the hard one to explain is the concept of the Holy Trinity......

  9. #9
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    Yehoshua would mean - Yahweh (god) is salvation

    the other is

    Immanuel - God is with us

    They are not the same thing :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus
    WOW I can't belived I used the Matrix to explain religion....does that make me a liberal?
    Please stop with the unecesary comments.
    Do or do not, there is no try. - Master Jedi Yoda
    He's Kermit on acid who happens to carry a big stick when pissed off. Big deal. - Apokalupsis
    Actually, didn't Frank Oz do Bert as well? We're cousins! - Withnail in reference to Bert and Yoda

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by RTShatto
    Yehoshua would mean - Yahweh (god) is salvation

    the other is

    Immanuel - God is with us

    They are not the same thing :(


    Please stop with the unecesary comments.
    I thought it was kind of funny.

  11. #11
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    Perhaps the apparent discrepancy is nothing more than a confusion or misinterpretation?

    Immanuel is what he may have become known as, as in a 'handle' or nick name - rather like Richard II became known as 'The Lionheart' or the Earl of Warwick the 'King maker'.

    Jesus was a common name at the time, perhaps it was a family name, Joseph seemed to be a bit insistent.

    I was given my own name as part of family politics. Both of my parents had brothers with the same name so it avoided untoward feelings that may have occurred.

  12. #12

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    The Jewish people were very semantic people; the things that they said were not necessarily to be taken literally.

    They did call Jesus Immanuel, without a doubt. Immanuel, as it has already been stated, means "God with us", and that was the contention of every Apostle or Christian apologist of the first century, and it is still the contention of many apologist today, including myself...that Jesus was God in the form of man...the ultimate sacrifice for the sin of all mankind. So they did call Him that, and we do so to this very day.

    Don't get hung up on the terminology "call his name"...this is a figure of speech. It just means that is what people will say of Him, or that is what they will "dubb" or "name" Him. He was God, and He was with us. Simple as that.

    As for the name "Jesus"...this too was semantic, though this was literally the name that was used to get his attention while He was on earth, and it is how we refer to him in simple measure today. This, too, was the command of God:

    Matthew 1:20-21 "But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins."
    The name Jesus, as it has already been stated, comes from the Hebrew name Yeshua, or Joshua, which mean "the Lord saves" or "the Lord is our salvation" or "God our savior". And that is what He was: God in the form of man (Immanuel), the salvation of us all (Jesus).

    So God commanded both, that we should call Him our salvation, and that we should say that He is God walking among us.

    Many times, we as a contemporary western culture fail to understand the meaning of some of the Bible because we are not a semantic people. We use figures of speech, granted. But the Jews were crazy; half, if not more, of what came out of their mouth had a meaning well beyond the literal. If we, as literalists, are ever going to understand the Bible, we are going to have to learn to relax, don't be so critical, don't argue over words by themselves, and wait for the understanding to manifest itself before we begin to say their is none.

    BTW, the above paragraph is not intended as a slam against this thread. This is a great question that needs answering. I'm just trying to offer some insight for those who desire to understand God's word more deeply and intimately. God is 100% semantic; never forget that. Everything He does (in this instance the two names) is intended to give us as mankind a better understand of Who He is.

  13. #13
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    He is I am, now im going to be lost in deep thought as to what that truely means :(
    Do or do not, there is no try. - Master Jedi Yoda
    He's Kermit on acid who happens to carry a big stick when pissed off. Big deal. - Apokalupsis
    Actually, didn't Frank Oz do Bert as well? We're cousins! - Withnail in reference to Bert and Yoda

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by RTShatto
    He is I am, now im going to be lost in deep thought as to what that truely means :(
    LOL...that's good though.

  15. #15
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    Thought can't be bad - unless it leaves you with depression or sleepless nights?

  16. #16
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    Ive had sleepless nights since my brother was born...which is all of my life minus 14 months :(

    But on the plus side, it gave me time to think
    Do or do not, there is no try. - Master Jedi Yoda
    He's Kermit on acid who happens to carry a big stick when pissed off. Big deal. - Apokalupsis
    Actually, didn't Frank Oz do Bert as well? We're cousins! - Withnail in reference to Bert and Yoda

 

 

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