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  1. #1
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    NAMBLA makes me [Censored]ing Sick

    I dont know if there has been a post on this before, and if there has....well, I dont care, im so pissed right now that Im not going to bother looking Im just going to start a new one. NAMBLA, for those of you who dont know, stands for North American Man/Boy Love association...Thats right, Man/Boy, as in, Men having sex with boys; most of which arent 15 or 16, but as young as 8 years old!

    Does this make anyone else want to vomit?

    I recently read an online article about the ACLU defending NAMBLA in a case in which they are being sued by the parents of Jeff Curley, a 10 year old boy who was abducted, killed (when he resisted sex) and raped (Post Mordem), by two men who were members of NAMBLA. Most of you would say:

    "Well, the organization didnt kill and rape anybody, they cant be charged SD! Lol!!111"

    Which I would agree with you, if the website dis not offer members support by saying sex with boys is okay and society is wrong (Liabilty: If I have a website that says that Sex with people with down syndrom is okay, and people who say its wrong are indeed wrong themselves, and I attempt to have sex with a person with down syndrom raping and killing them in the process you can bet my butt would be sued...but for some reason gays get special treatment) , and even offering "tutorials" on how to get boys to have sex with them.

    Problems:

    A.) These are some sick SOB's

    and

    B.) If the website can state again and again that tose who have these "man/boy" feelings are right, and people who say that children should be protected from such acts are wrong... Dont you think that there is some boiling point at which after being told so many times its okay, the person in question is going to actually believe it, and end up forcing themselves onto the unwilling because its "Okay"?

    I know that this is a bunch of scrambled thoughts right now, Im really worked up about this, I perhaps used too much emotion :o But, when I get my thoughts all in line ill respond to what the rest of you have to say
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  2. #2
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    Re: NAMBLA makes me [Censored]ing Sick

    I have never been to fond of NAMBLA. They give a bad name to normal homosexuals, and make them look like they're all pedophiles. I am not sure why they are allowed to exist, as they are a group BASED around an illegal activity, sex with minors. The North American Presidential Assassination Group would get shut down immediately.

    Whether Man/Boy Love is right or wrong has little or nothing to do with the fact that it is illegal, and this group seems to be based around it.
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  3. #3
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    Re: NAMBLA makes me [Censored]ing Sick

    SD - it is sick, illegal and it should have been shut down by now. Sometimes I think they are left in business so that the government can track and catch pedophiles - I doubt it though. Is there a SAMBLA too? Why did they single out North America for this sick enterprise?
    While laughing at others stupidity, you may want to contemplate your own comedic talents. (link)
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  4. #4
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    Re: NAMBLA makes me [Censored]ing Sick

    Hmmm... I may have been to hasty, they seem mostly a group intent on changing the laws, not breaking them. They seem rather change oriented. To quote from their site:

    "NAMBLA does not provide encouragement, referrals or assistance for people seeking sexual contacts. NAMBLA does not engage in any activities that violate the law, nor do we advocate that anyone else should do so."

    Still gross, but any group is free to try to get opinions heard and turned into legislation.
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  5. #5
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    Re: NAMBLA makes me [Censored]ing Sick

    Well, this is what i get for not reviewing the issue fully. I completely disagree with NAMBLA's views. They advocate consensual sex with young boys. I would argue that, for very specific reasons, 18 is considered the age of consent, and a person younger than that cannot give consent, and are not considered legally competent to do so.

    However, until it can be shown that NAMBLA helped these men in any way, it should ot be prosecuted. Morally sanctioning an act does not equate to aiding or committing an it.
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  6. #6
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    Re: NAMBLA makes me [Censored]ing Sick

    Quote Originally Posted by Iluvatar
    Morally sanctioning an act does not equate to aiding or committing an it.
    *Unless* it can be proven that "tactics" distributed from the group (i.e. The attempt at getting the young boy to consent to sex before the murder.) are subject to fall under aiding.

    Think about it,

    The illegal act in which they supported, and aided, in the distribution of these same "tactics" are an extension to which can be liability to the murder.

    If someone gives you the information about how to rape someone, where to find them, and how to get to them (sex with a minor is rape) and you follow through, only to end up killing that person, they too can be held responsible (Conspiracy, Accomplish, ect...ect....ect....)
    "ATF? What exactly does that stand for?"
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  7. #7
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    Re: NAMBLA makes me [Censored]ing Sick

    However, until it can be shown that NAMBLA helped these men in any way, it should ot be prosecuted. Morally sanctioning an act does not equate to aiding or committing an it.
    Just like the KKK, right? I mean, they just SANCTION lynching niggers. Some of their members may actually go out and do exactly that, but the KKK can't be held liable for the criminal actions of a few extreme members, can it?

    Whether Man/Boy Love is right or wrong has little or nothing to do with the fact that it is illegal, and this group seems to be based around it.
    Would it be off-topic to discuss the basis of laws?

    We outlaw things because we consider them "wrong". We may outlaw them because they cause demonstrable harm to other people, and we want to prevent that. Why? Because it's wrong. Is there another reason to want to prevent, through legislation, demonstrable harm?
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  8. #8
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    Re: NAMBLA makes me [Censored]ing Sick

    Would it be off-topic to discuss the basis of laws?
    No, I was merely pointing out that this group would be illegal if it aided in those things, regardless of whether they are right or wrong. Anything to do with NAMBLA is fair game.

    SD, this group does not show people how to commit these activities or anything. It simply promotes the idea that it should be legal. It comes close, by providing accounts, but it never advocates engaging in sex with a minor NOW, it merely advocates that it is RIGHT. They don't give any of the info you described.

    And yes, you are correct. If it can be shown that their actions aided those men, then they are quite guilty.

    I think you have a good argument, I'm just not getting it completely, yet.
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  9. #9
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    Re: NAMBLA makes me [Censored]ing Sick

    From http://www.inoohr.org/victim.htm...

    The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) calls a $200-million lawsuit against the North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) a "witch hunt."

    The suit is being brought by the family of slain 10-year-old Jeffrey Curley, who was molested and murdered by two men. Police found NAMBLA materials in the home of one of those men, Charles Jaynes.

    Attorneys for Robert and Barbara Curley, of Cambridge, Massachusetts, have asked a federal judge to let them sue NAMBLA under Rico laws, which target criminal conspiracies.

    NAMBLA is a "criminal" organization "that exists to train pedophiles to rape children," according to the suit.

    The Curley lawsuit also demands the names of all NAMBLA members.

    "That, more than anything, shows the purpose of this suit and why it should be dismissed," ACLU attorney John Reinstein told the court in his petition to have the case dismissed.


    This makes for bad law. REALLY bad law.

    Yeah, NAMBLA is full of sickos and pedaphiles who want to have intercourse with individuals who are not consenting adults. That being said, the nature of the lawsuit is really aweful.

    Remember folks, if the folks bringing the suit are allowed to and win, then it becomes precedent. So, let's say you're a member of the NRA. One day you get a letter in the mail stating that you're name is being disclosed in a court case along with every other name of every other NRA member. Why? Because some guy who shot someone happened to have some NRA materials in his car.

    The case would bring a connection between any criminal act and any group who advocates any stance that's even CLOSE to a criminal act. Assault charges? Sue the karate dojo that taught the guy how to fight. It makes for bad law.

    Especially the demand of NAMBLA to disclose all members.

  10. #10
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    Re: NAMBLA makes me [Censored]ing Sick

    Wrong analogy, the NRA does not exist to kill people, NAMBLA exist's to have sex with little boys.
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  11. #11
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    Re: NAMBLA makes me [Censored]ing Sick

    Not technically. What they are (or their cover at least) is an "organization" which allows for the assemblance of grown men who prefer sexual intimacy with young boys. It's immoral IMO, but Americans have the right to peaceably assemble. As long as their gatherings are not forced onto anyone (namely the boys in question), don't break any other laws, and don't get violent, etc., they are free to do as they please.

    The point of contention is the common denominator between all these men: that they do, in fact, prefer sex with young boys, a crime in any jurisdiction I'm aware of. Their purpose from their own site. It seems as though their basis for existence is simply to challenge consent laws.

    Legality/morality aside, though, I concur: it's sickening. I've long been of the opinion that pedophilia is [at least] among the worst "-philia" humankind has to offer. NAMBLA is attempting to turn the predator into the victim, no more, no less.
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  12. #12
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    Re: NAMBLA makes me [Censored]ing Sick

    [sarcasm] They should be allowed to say whatever they want. After all, they ONLY want to change laws that prevent them from having sex with infants and adolescents. What's wrong with challenging that law anyways? I mean, it's not like Hundreds of Doctors and Psychologists have explained how wrong and harmful that is right? [/sarcasm]
    But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.
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  13. #13
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    Re: NAMBLA makes me [Censored]ing Sick

    I didn't write the laws, man... *shrugz*

    I don't agree with it anymore than you or anyone else, and I said as much. My post, had you looked closer, was in response to RT's comment directly before my own.

    Also, I said that "It seems as though their basis for existence is simply to challenge consent laws." That is what I got from their site. That's the purpose of a source, no? We all know that their driving force differs from their public 'mission statement', but...apparently that's not what counts...
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  14. #14
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    Re: NAMBLA makes me [Censored]ing Sick

    Any Organisation That 'officially' Sanctions Any Kind Of Under Age Activity Is To Be Deplored. 'NAMBLA' Is Just A Variant Of Paedophile Rings. As Sure As Hell You Will Find Manipulative And Predatory Adults Lurking Behind The Scenery And In The Wings.
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  15. #15
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    Re: NAMBLA makes me [Censored]ing Sick

    This bugs me - for a different reason. We spend our days being proud of the rights and priveleges American's have, people are proud of their freedom of speach. But when a group excercises that freedom to voice an opinion we beleive is wrong people get angry and annoyed.

    Sure if members of NAMBLA break the law that wrong, but what is wrong with NAMBLA as a group saying "we don't like this law" provided they don't acctually break it.
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    Re: NAMBLA makes me [Censored]ing Sick

    Because nothing good can come from an organization such as NAMBLA, its sole existance is to destroy the "innocence" of children. The constitution calls for the protection of the general welfare.
    Do or do not, there is no try. - Master Jedi Yoda
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    Re: NAMBLA makes me [Censored]ing Sick

    Quote Originally Posted by FruitandNut
    Any Organisation That 'officially' Sanctions Any Kind Of Under Age Activity Is To Be Deplored. 'NAMBLA' Is Just A Variant Of Paedophile Rings. As Sure As Hell You Will Find Manipulative And Predatory Adults Lurking Behind The Scenery And In The Wings.
    I dont wish to picky, but is there a reason why you capitalized all of your words?
    Do or do not, there is no try. - Master Jedi Yoda
    He's Kermit on acid who happens to carry a big stick when pissed off. Big deal. - Apokalupsis
    Actually, didn't Frank Oz do Bert as well? We're cousins! - Withnail in reference to Bert and Yoda

  18. #18
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    Re: NAMBLA makes me [Censored]ing Sick

    Quote Originally Posted by RTShatto
    Because nothing good can come from an organization such as NAMBLA, its sole existance is to destroy the "innocence" of children. The constitution calls for the protection of the general welfare.
    You fell in the hole again - you and I don't agree with what they're proposing, we don't see anything good coming out of it. But the point is they do.
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  19. #19
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    Re: NAMBLA makes me [Censored]ing Sick

    Quote Originally Posted by Iluvatar

    SD, this group does not show people how to commit these activities or anything. It simply promotes the idea that it should be legal. It comes close, by providing accounts, but it never advocates engaging in sex with a minor NOW, it merely advocates that it is RIGHT. They don't give any of the info you described.

    If I can remember right, and I know the source can be questioned, in an interview the lawyer for the family of the murdered boy he claimed that once a member of the organization you are connected with senior members who provide you with such information (The descriptions on how to commit the "seduction" As well as who to get ahold of to be able to have sex with children). Recently, a group of NAMBLA members were caught trying to sign up for a trip to mexico to have sex with boys, one of the men was a high ranking NAMBLA "officer". If the lawyer was correct or NAMBLA itself partook in the scheduling of this trip, and It could be proven, this would provide enough evidence to connect the organization with illegal acts, would it not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhavric
    The Curley lawsuit also demands the names of all NAMBLA members.

    "That, more than anything, shows the purpose of this suit and why it should be dismissed," ACLU attorney John Reinstein told the court in his petition to have the case dismissed.
    I can understand about why this would be a rather touchy precedent to set, with the institution of this law, as you said, it would be easier to hold organizations liable on the grounds of vicarious liability. However, the difference between NAMBLA and the dojo, as you mentioned, is that the latter does not advocate an illegal action. If the person running the dojo said "Im going to train you how to assault someone for no reason, to rob them, to kill them ect (The reason I use these examples is that they are of illegal nature.... i.e It is illegal to just attack someone, but ok in defense) Then Im sure that the dojo could, and should, be subject to scrutiny of the law.
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  20. #20
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    Re: NAMBLA makes me [Censored]ing Sick

    Quote Originally Posted by RTShatto
    Wrong analogy, the NRA does not exist to kill people, NAMBLA exist's to have sex with little boys.
    NAMBLA advocates abolishing certain laws that make pedophelia illegal. Last I checked, the Republicrats hadn't abolished the first amendment just yet, so it's still legal to say, "I think law X is wrong. It should be changed."

    The problem here in this debate is that we don't have enough solid information to go on.

    If it is the case that NAMBLA = Here's instructions on how to break the law.
    Then they're on thin ice. This isn't an instant kick me sign as it's still legal to sell books on how to build bombs... but if they are assisting pedophiles in covering their tracks, they're going to get a big kick me sign.

    If it is the case that NAMBLA = Certain laws that are in place don't make sense to us. We think they should be changed.
    Then there's no reason for a lawsuit that specifically targets them for wrongdoing of individuals who may or may not be members of their group.

    Shatto, it wouldn't matter what NAMBLA is or is not advocating or what the NRA is advocating. It would set precedent that individuals could go after larger groups based on criminal activity that MAY be associate with said group. Consider this:

    The NRA advocates guns for self defense purposes.

    John Doe attacks Sally Smith. John Doe is unarmed. Sally Smith has a gun, takes it out, and shoots John Doe dead. At trial it turns out that Sally Smith is a card-carrying member of the NRA. If the NAMBLA lawsuit was allowed to go through, it would allow John Doe's family to aim a wrongful death lawsuit at the NRA, sue the NRA for millions of dollars, and force the NRA to disclose private information because it cannot be argued that the NRA advocates guns for self defense.

 

 
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