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Thread: To Pibs

  1. #1
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    To Pibs

    Quote Originally Posted by Pibs
    How about killing people that might be witches? How about the Spanish Inquisition?

    How about the fact that Islam and Christianity are more alike than different and based on the same self thing?

    How about studying propaganda instead of swallowing it, how about learning from history?

    Ya know, seems to Pibs you lot should make your mind up who you want to exterminate first, gays or Muslims?


    P.
    I don't want to exterminate the gays.

    If you actually wish to defend the idea that your religion is peaceful in nature and that the "Propaganda" is falsely misleading the entire populus to believe that Islam is evil take up F&N's spot on our 1v1 debate and prove that the teachings of Islam are not vioent. Please, Please do.
    "ATF? What exactly does that stand for?"
    "Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms"
    "So, what else does you sell?"

  2. #2
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    Re: To Pibs

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Hyde
    Islam states that no man shall raise a blade to a man who doesn't have a sword, a woman, a child, or a building. ALSO, Islam teaches that, while converting others is encouraged, it doesn't say that you should do so violently. The idea that Islam encourages violence is because here in the states, and in a good deal of the world, we're only seeing fascist hate mongers abuse Islam and claim that it supports their actions. I think MSN or CNN wrote an article about this.

    Okay, have you even looked at our debate Hyde? Ive cited several sources of which contradict that "no man shall..." and " doesn't say you should do so violently" Did I mention the source of my sources? The Koran?
    "ATF? What exactly does that stand for?"
    "Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms"
    "So, what else does you sell?"

  3. #3
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    Re: To Pibs

    Quote Originally Posted by FruitandNut

    ps. To Pibs - warm fuzzies |)|

    None to SD? I thought we had something special FN :(
    "ATF? What exactly does that stand for?"
    "Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms"
    "So, what else does you sell?"

  4. #4
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    Re: To Pibs

    I get my very own thread? Why sheesh, flatterred I am.



    I have to pop out but will be back, if only to explain why I rarely debate religion, especially my own..


    P.
    "The intelligence and facts are being fixed around the policy."
    head of MI6

    "The Emory University study proves beyond a doubt that politicians and their acolytes - are lying morons."

    "We must make clear to the Germans that the wrong for which their fallen leaders are on trial is not that they lost the war, but that they started it."
    Justice Jackson Nov. 21, 1945, Nuremberg

  5. #5
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    Re: To Pibs

    Sorry to call you out Pibs, I can respect if you do not wish to debate, F&N and I will sit here and continue to hug each other as if on Valium. |)|


    EDIT: Question to Pibs though, can you spell it "Koran"? I have seen it spelled three ways, "Q' "Ko" and "Kour" Just curious.
    "ATF? What exactly does that stand for?"
    "Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms"
    "So, what else does you sell?"

  6. #6
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    Re: To Pibs

    TRShatto is correct, thought typically you will find the actual books spelt with a Q. The actual text has not changed and does not change regardless of title spelling. The 'sayings' of Big Mo do not have such authority and some may have been added later.

    On the issue of Islam (the religion of Muslims) being violent, consider the actual name 'Muslim', it actually comes from the word 'submission' and this is often taken to mean Muslims have been 'subdued', perhaps with violence. Nope, just means they submit to God above all worldy authority. It's a religion of meek people

    'Jihad' merely means to struggle to be a good little Muslim, paying zakat (charity) is jihad, fasting in the month of Ramadan is jihad, planting IEDs along 'route Irish' is jihad.. the only difference is internal and external but it's all jihad.

    Sadly it's a easy-to-spell word and sounds suitably Arabic so journalists like to use it a lot.

    Arabic plays a major part in Islam for the simple reason that the Koran must not be changed, including it's language. As such to truly read the Koran you must learn Arabic, in fact even to convert you must state so in Arabic (ashadu al ah illa ha ill Allah, wa ashadu etc etc). Naturally this leaves a lot open to interpretation among those who don't but have read someone else's translation. It should be understood that English and Arabic just don't mix, some bits yes but it's a seriously different language - just take a glance at how it's written for example. Above I've used conventional lettering for sounds but the actual script makes Chinese look simple.

    The above is just one reason I reserve judgement when people tell me "It sez here that Big Mo said 'kill everybody'" for I've often talked to people who can literally recite the Koran from memory in Arabic and who's eyes twinkle with humour at the idea Islam is about war, for it is about peace.

    Imagine for example an Arab trying to explain to you 'I hear Mother Teresa was a warmonger?'.

    Ultimately the bottom line comes down to 3 main points.

    1. The time or period. At that time fighting was a normal sorta event, should we read book on medieval Britain and presume we're all supposed to be killing each other today?

    2. Mo was a statesman, a politician, a leader or whatever term you prefer, he was not some unknown and unprovable chap who never made any history books execept his own - though bear in mind Jesus is considered a prophet too. Islam states there were a number of prophets, Mo being the last in the line.

    Even those who love Bush would admit he can have an unfortunate turn of phrase and what we might politely term 'leadership qualities', meaning he may occasionally yell 'Kill em all!' but that's just one facet of his 'leadership'.

    3. The people. It really is a waste of time trying to convince me that the literally hundreds of Muslims I've worked with, hung around with, played sport with, heaved weights with, shared jokes and all other manners of human interaction are anything other than a very nice bunch of people.

    Where I live is close to 2 nightclubs, I've often watched arguments spill over into.. arguments. I once watched, with great bemusement, 2 young men looking set to kill each other, displaying every sign any anthropologist would consider winding up for attack/battle. Yet without stepping over that line. Clenched fists was the least of it, one guy ripped his own shirt off in frustration, numerous times they would go eyeball to eyeball - but neither would commit the sin of throwing the first punch.

    In contrast I popped back to the UK for just 3 months during which I had to deck one drunk idiot who just wouldn't leave me alone and when I refused to dance with him (?!) started hitting me and another night had my best mate disappear then phone me from home explaining he was nursing a smashed mouth and wondering if to go to the hospital or not. In the UK a fight can start with a dirty look, here you actually have to provoke someone, repeatedly, while insulting their honor.

    Even the handshakes here are like limp lettuce, accompanied by 'Peace be upon you', the standard Islamic greeting (usually returned with 'Peace be upon you too'. In Arabic, naturally.)

    I have simply known too many Muslims to consider them a bunch of violent extremists. Yes, they DO take their religion very seriously, many would literally die for it but honor is very important. To be aggressive is to be un-Islamic, you only resort to violence under extreme situations and losing your temper is a big no-no.

    The biggest 'threat' of Islam is the fact that unlike most wannabe religious types they actually are serious, that doesn't gel too well with modern society that pays lip service to it and blatantly sneers at it. You don't have to BE Muslim but showing a little respect is pretty much mandatory.

    Yes, it's true I am much more familiar with Asian Muslims, though heard similar from my uncle who spent 2 decades in Saudi Arabia, arguably next to Iran the strictest place outside the wholly artificial Taliban of Afghanistan.

    So I tend not to get into such debates as 'Did Mo once say 'Kill em all!'? for faith and my existing knowledge is not something I can debate really. Sure, some Muslims are toe-rags, sometimes they take chunks from the Koran and use them out of context, some Christains are toe-rags and do the same with the bible and some athiests are toe-rags and cite government regulations..

    I'll leave you with 2 points that hold great wisdom an stuff:

    In war the first casualty is truth.

    Do onto others as you'd have done unto you.

    Remember those 2 points and you'll do better than most.


    P.
    "The intelligence and facts are being fixed around the policy."
    head of MI6

    "The Emory University study proves beyond a doubt that politicians and their acolytes - are lying morons."

    "We must make clear to the Germans that the wrong for which their fallen leaders are on trial is not that they lost the war, but that they started it."
    Justice Jackson Nov. 21, 1945, Nuremberg

  7. #7
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    Re: To Pibs

    Not just so much the thread, but my life Hyde....
    "ATF? What exactly does that stand for?"
    "Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms"
    "So, what else does you sell?"

  8. #8
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    Re: To Pibs

    Quote Originally Posted by Harrison383
    It's okay, Hyde. KB did the same to me in the Homosexuality is Evil Thread. I assumed the latter as well, since I got rep points for it.

    It'll be alright. |)|
    Bah! You people, I have my education and a job that take priority over my debates on here sometimes, please, allow me more than a couple hours to reply to your posts, if I don't reply in a week, you can consider my interest diminished (Whether it be from lack of interest or a recognized defeat)
    "ATF? What exactly does that stand for?"
    "Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms"
    "So, what else does you sell?"

 

 

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