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Thread: Bible Fraud???

  1. #1
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    Bible Fraud???

    Anyone read this book? I just ran across some...details of it, and I found it to be...well disconcerting.

    Wondering how much there is to the tale, sort of thing.

    Here's an excerpt:

    On 21 June, the day of the Summer Solstice, (and under those cult conditions) a total of 2048 "presbyters, deacons, sub-deacons, acolytes and exorcists" gathered at Nicaea to decide what Christianity really was, what it would be, what writings were to be used and who was to be it's God.

    Ancient church evidence established that a new 'god' was to be approved by the Roman Emperor and an earlier attempt (circa 210) to deify either Judas Khrestus or his twin brother Rabbi Jesus (or somebody else) had been 'declined'. Therefore, as late as 325, the Christian religion did not have an official god.


    Judas and Jesus as brothers? Oh my...

    However, attempting to summarize what Tony has written..... in 325 AD, the first Christian council was called at Nicaea to bring the stories of twin brothers, Jesus 'the Rabbi' and Judas Khrestus into one deity that we now know as Jesus Christ. Tony says they were not born of virgin birth but to Nabatean Arab Mariamne Herod (now known as the Virgin Mary) and fathered by Tiberius ben Panthera, a Roman Centurion. The brothers were raised in the Essene community and became Khrists of their faith. Rabbi Jesus later was initiated in Egypt at the highest of levels similar to the 33rd degree of Freemasonry of which many Prime ministers and Presidents around the world today are members. He then later married three wives, one of whom we know as a Mary Magdalene, a Druidic Princess, stole the Torah from the temple and moved to Lud, now London.


    Freemasonry and Jesus...???

    Jesus had not one, but 3 wives???

    This is...well conspiracy oriented in my mind, sprinkled with just enough fact to garner the interest of the layman...

    You can read the rest at:

    http://www.rense.com/general66/hide.htm

    Discuss...
    But if you do not find an intelligent companion, a wise and well-behaved person going the same way as yourself, then go on your way alone, like a king abandoning a conquered kingdom, or like a great elephant in the deep forest. - Buddha

  2. #2
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    Re: Bible Fraud???

    Funny... she doesn't LOOK druish...

    The biggest part I have a problem with is the notion that folks hanging out in the middle-east could travel or would travel all the way to what is now London. I suppose Roman roads would have been able to help, but still: why go all the way up north like that?

  3. #3
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    Re: Bible Fraud???

    Quote Originally Posted by Slipnish
    Rabbi Jesus later was initiated in Egypt at the highest of levels similar to the 33rd degree of Freemasonry of which many Prime ministers and Presidents around the world today are members. He then later married three wives, one of whom we know as a Mary Magdalene, a Druidic Princess, stole the Torah from the temple and moved to Lud, now London.
    Well, that's pretty accurate, except for the fact that Jesus never left Palestine, the fact that He never married or had sex, the fact that He never stole anything, and the fact that Freemasonry isn't nearly that prevalent anymore. In other words, what a load of ****.

  4. #4
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    Re: Bible Fraud???

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinBrowning
    Well, that's pretty accurate, except for the fact that Jesus never left Palestine, the fact that He never married or had sex, the fact that He never stole anything,
    Or so you think. It is the case that the gospels never mention anything about a huge chunk of Jesus' life.


    and the fact that Freemasonry isn't nearly that prevalent anymore. In other words, what a load of ****.
    Nope... no influence at all...


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    Re: Bible Fraud???

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhavric
    Or so you think. It is the case that the gospels never mention anything about a huge chunk of Jesus' life.
    So between the ages of 12 and 30 He wandered around India as an ascetic, I suppose? Or maybe He was using that time to pay a visit to the American Indians, via divine teleport? Or perhaps He eloped to France with Mary Magdalene and started the Merovingian line, and then came back to be crucified? Sounds plausible to me.

    Nope... no influence at all...

    What an Earth-shattering revelation: the Capitol's architecture has Freemason elements of design. Maybe it's because a few of the Founding Fathers were involved in what had become basically a country club with some mystical traditons. And today, it's not nearly as prevalent, what with all the suspicion and knowledge about secret societies in the modern age of information.

  6. #6
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    Re: Bible Fraud???

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinBrowning
    So between the ages of 12 and 30 He wandered around India as an ascetic, I suppose? Or maybe He was using that time to pay a visit to the American Indians, via divine teleport? Or perhaps He eloped to France with Mary Magdalene and started the Merovingian line, and then came back to be crucified? Sounds plausible to me.
    You tell me, hoss. You're the one who buys into all the goofy mumbo-jumbo parlor tricks.

    My point is that you cannot say "never" when nearly TWO DECADES of the man's life aren't accounted for.

    What an Earth-shattering revelation: the Capitol's architecture has Freemason elements of design. Maybe it's because a few of the Founding Fathers were involved in what had become basically a country club with some mystical traditons. And today, it's not nearly as prevalent, what with all the suspicion and knowledge about secret societies in the modern age of information.
    Because people trying to build a NATION routinely look to their country clubs for inspiration...

  7. #7
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    Re: Bible Fraud???

    I think this stinks of a conspiracy theory unsubstantiated by reliable sources, though I have not actually read it, so I don't know whether or not there are holes in reasoning or whether the sources really are unreliable. However, Kevin, you have not done a very good job of striking it down.
    Quote Originally Posted by KB
    Well, that's pretty accurate, except for the fact that Jesus never left Palestine, the fact that He never married or had sex, the fact that He never stole anything, and the fact that Freemasonry isn't nearly that prevalent anymore. In other words, what a load of ****.
    Quote Originally Posted by KB
    So between the ages of 12 and 30 He wandered around India as an ascetic, I suppose? Or maybe He was using that time to pay a visit to the American Indians, via divine teleport? Or perhaps He eloped to France with Mary Magdalene and started the Merovingian line, and then came back to be crucified? Sounds plausible to me.
    The fundamental problem with the position from which you are arguing is that you are assuming the accuracy of the New Testament in a debate about the New Testaments validity among other issues. Thus, you are using circular logic. What if the New Testament wasn't accurate?
    孟柏民
    Formerly Neverending (for all you old-timers)

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    Re: Bible Fraud???

    Quote Originally Posted by Slipnish
    Anyone read this book? I just ran across some...details of it, and I found it to be...well disconcerting.

    Wondering how much there is to the tale, sort of thing.

    Here's an excerpt:

    On 21 June, the day of the Summer Solstice, (and under those cult conditions) a total of 2048 "presbyters, deacons, sub-deacons, acolytes and exorcists" gathered at Nicaea to decide what Christianity really was, what it would be, what writings were to be used and who was to be it's God.

    Ancient church evidence established that a new 'god' was to be approved by the Roman Emperor and an earlier attempt (circa 210) to deify either Judas Khrestus or his twin brother Rabbi Jesus (or somebody else) had been 'declined'. Therefore, as late as 325, the Christian religion did not have an official god.


    Judas and Jesus as brothers? Oh my...

    However, attempting to summarize what Tony has written..... in 325 AD, the first Christian council was called at Nicaea to bring the stories of twin brothers, Jesus 'the Rabbi' and Judas Khrestus into one deity that we now know as Jesus Christ. Tony says they were not born of virgin birth but to Nabatean Arab Mariamne Herod (now known as the Virgin Mary) and fathered by Tiberius ben Panthera, a Roman Centurion. The brothers were raised in the Essene community and became Khrists of their faith. Rabbi Jesus later was initiated in Egypt at the highest of levels similar to the 33rd degree of Freemasonry of which many Prime ministers and Presidents around the world today are members. He then later married three wives, one of whom we know as a Mary Magdalene, a Druidic Princess, stole the Torah from the temple and moved to Lud, now London.


    Freemasonry and Jesus...???

    Jesus had not one, but 3 wives???

    This is...well conspiracy oriented in my mind, sprinkled with just enough fact to garner the interest of the layman...

    You can read the rest at:

    http://www.rense.com/general66/hide.htm

    Discuss...
    Not unlike today, there were many sects in 325 that incorprated Christ into their belief system. Emperor Constantine -- supposedly persuaded by a "miraculous" victory of his army after he was inspired to have them paint crosses on their shields -- and because Christianity was becoming more popular than paganism in ROme -- ordered th Council to determine exactly waht it meant to be a Christian. He also orderedthat a Bible (book) be produced for the religion. The Holy Bible also was derived from this council. Prior to this indivual churches just had 1-2 Gospels.

    The end result of the counsil was the CHURCH which included the Bishops of Rome, Greece, Syria, Antioch, Palestine, etc.

    Until 1165 it was all one Church East and West. Then a popless vatican decided to split with the other Churches. Today -- of the original church, we have Roman Catholics (West)and Orthodox CHristians (East). Orthodox beliefs and practices remain pretty much as they always have been even before the council and the Holy Bible. Roman Catloic Dogma however has changed over time.

    Prior to 325 -- much like today -- anybody could call themself a Christian. There was even a sect who worshipped John the Baptist. Some of these professing Christian sects had ceremonies that consisted of sex orgies and all kinds of things. (See what happens when you don't have Apostolic Tradition to guide you)

    It is worth noting that the CHristian Bishops made some compromises to their pagan neighbors. After 325 the Sabbath was held on Sunday (the day of worship for the Sol or Sun God worshippers)-- not Saturday -- so society had a communal day of rest. The bishops had no problem with this as Christ rose on a Sunday so they could justify the sabbath day changing.

    None of this is secret and there is no conspiracy. One can even find these supposedly "secret gospels" popular in pop litertaure as well as many otyher interesting facts in any good theological library. Before 325 -- much like today -- saying you were a "Christian" could mean anything.

    The debates in the council often became heated -- Saint Nicholas, yes that's right the one Santa Claus takes his name from -- was a bishop and even got into a fist fight with one sect's represntative who claimed Christ was only human and not DIvine. St. Nicholas composed himself after and asked forgiveness -- but things were pretty heated at that council.

  9. #9
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    Re: Bible Fraud???

    Quote Originally Posted by Neverending
    The fundamental problem with the position from which you are arguing is that you are assuming the accuracy of the New Testament in a debate about the New Testaments validity among other issues. Thus, you are using circular logic. What if the New Testament wasn't accurate?
    Precisely.

    ALthough the Holy Bible is accurate, it is not complete in and of itself. To most fully understand the Holy Bible one must apply Apostolic Tradions and teachings -- the lessons handed down from the Apostles to the priests and bishops they chose, the Desert Fathers, and maintained today in the living Church founded by Christ... One guess which church that is.

  10. #10
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    Re: Bible Fraud???

    One guess which church that is
    Roman Catholic?.
    While laughing at others stupidity, you may want to contemplate your own comedic talents. (link)
    Disclaimer: This information is being provided for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only.

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    Re: Bible Fraud???

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus
    the living Church founded by Christ... One guess which church that is.
    That's an easy one. The Christian church.

  12. #12
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    Re: Bible Fraud???

    No sources for the claims? We have to buy the book to see if sources even exist? What are Bushby's credentials?
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  13. #13
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    Re: Bible Fraud???

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis
    No sources for the claims? We have to buy the book to see if sources even exist? What are Bushby's credentials?
    I have no idea. I was more taken with his line of reasoning about the Council of Nicea and that aspect.

    I figured this topic would stir up the locals, so I figured, eh, what the heck.
    But if you do not find an intelligent companion, a wise and well-behaved person going the same way as yourself, then go on your way alone, like a king abandoning a conquered kingdom, or like a great elephant in the deep forest. - Buddha

  14. #14
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    Re: Bible Fraud???

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus
    Precisely.

    ALthough the Holy Bible is accurate, it is not complete in and of itself. To most fully understand the Holy Bible one must apply Apostolic Tradions and teachings -- the lessons handed down from the Apostles to the priests and bishops they chose, the Desert Fathers, and maintained today in the living Church founded by Christ... One guess which church that is.
    How convenient.

    Dont get me wrong, I have nothing against the Orthodox and find much I agree with them on.

    But I find that their attitude....we are the oldest...therefore we are always right....to be way to convenient.

    Maybe we should dig through their history and find all of their mistakes and heresies?

    After all one can do the same with the Catholic Church.

    That is my whole problem with the Orthodox and Catholics....unless you are one of them....your not trully following Christ....since when did being a Christian have anything to do with which club you belong too?
    I typically cite original research papers and reviews that are available only to a personal or institutional subscriptional. If you wish a PDF copy of the papers I cite, send me a request.

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    Re: Bible Fraud???

    Quote Originally Posted by Slipnish
    I figured this topic would stir up the locals, so I figured, eh, what the heck.
    Slip, you should also check out Gary Greenberg's 101 Myths of the Bible, a book I have read myself. In it, the book describes the various mythical stories in the OT and their origins in preexisting myths and legends from other cultures, as well as more generally, pagan influences on early Hebrew historical beliefs. (He also explores myths in the Bible that are not supported by archeaological data). Although most people who are somewhat educated in Biblical history have been exposed to the arguments regarding the origins of the Flood myth (e.g., the Babylonian Epic of Gilgamesh), this book covers a lot more and is a genuine eye-opener.

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    Re: Bible Fraud???

    Quote Originally Posted by chadn737
    That is my whole problem with the Orthodox and Catholics....unless you are one of them....your not trully following Christ....since when did being a Christian have anything to do with which club you belong too?
    Since the time of Christ...

    Christ let many of His followers walk away in John 6 rather than more clearly explain a "hard thing". Many of Paul's letters concern how things shouold be done in the Church and how to treat and respond to numerous challenges from within and without. Orthodox, in my opinion though, are not so sanctimonious like the Roman Catholics and most Protestants. Orthodox are content to leave judgement up to Christ and view salvation as a journey. Not a checklist of screments or a precise moment when suddenly "one is saved". WHo are we to Judge another? That job is Christ's alone.

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    Re: Bible Fraud???

    Quote Originally Posted by Booger
    Slip, you should also check out Gary Greenberg's 101 Myths of the Bible, a book I have read myself. In it, the book describes the various mythical stories in the OT and their origins in preexisting myths and legends from other cultures, as well as more generally, pagan influences on early Hebrew historical beliefs. (He also explores myths in the Bible that are not supported by archeaological data). Although most people who are somewhat educated in Biblical history have been exposed to the arguments regarding the origins of the Flood myth (e.g., the Babylonian Epic of Gilgamesh), this book covers a lot more and is a genuine eye-opener.
    I have this book, I've read it. While an interesting read, and admittedly, some stories I just don't know enough about...there are also things in it that are simply not true. I cannot recall specifically what they were at this time, I'd have to go back through the book. But I remember thinking to myself "But he's ignoring X,Y,Z which was shown to be the case by so and so historian or archeaologist!"

    Read it with a grain of salt. IMO, he's "preaching to the choir", or he caters to those who are predisposed to believe a certain way. He's not likely to convince anyone in the other camp nor anyone leaning on the fence.
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