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Poll: Which is your feeling?

Be advised that this is a public poll: other users can see the choice(s) you selected.

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  1. #1
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    The "I ____ America" poll.

    Despite the fact that every single American should love America enough to die for it if need be, and every single non-American should respect and admire it, there are many belligerent ingrates who proudly express "I hate America," almost as if they are being morally righteous by revealing this revolting sentiment. Despite the astounding brilliance and sacrifice of truly enlightened men like Washington, Franklin, Adams, Hamilton, Madison, Jay, Paine, Hancock, Jefferson, Henry and many others, it is now considered enlightened to go around bashing the glorious Republic and its ideals.

    There have of course been innumerable political debates on O.D.N. over the years, but I don't ever recall a thread asking in simple terms what the members' attitudes are toward America in general. Please don't give me any semantics over whether I mean the government, or the citizens, or the principles, or the reality, or any of that arrogantly over-cautious kind of thing. Just answer the poll, or don't. Thank you. Please do include where you're from though, if it's not stated in your profile.

  2. #2
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    Re: The "I ____ America" poll.

    Despite the fact that every single American should love America enough to die for it if need be, and every single non-American should respect and admire it, there are many who are recognizing that those in government do not have America's ideals at heart and refuse to be belittled by indviduals who cannot seperate comments regarding a country and comments regarding those governing a country. Despite the astounding brilliance and sacrifice of truly enlightened men like Washington, Franklin, Adams, Hamilton, Madison, Jay, Paine, Hancock, Jefferson, Henry and many others, it is now considered acceptable to vote into office individuals who aren't the best or the brightest, but who appear to be "just one of us".

    There have of course been innumerable political debates on O.D.N. over the years, but I don't ever recall a thread asking in simple terms what the members' attitudes are toward America in general. Please don't give me any semantics over whether I mean the government, or the citizens, or the principles, or the reality, or any of that arrogantly over-cautious kind of thing because it's easier to just lump it all together. Just answer the poll, or don't. Thank you. Please do include where you're from though, if it's not stated in your profile.


    By the by, Kevin: if you disagree with a bad call by a ref, does that mean you hate football?

  3. #3
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    Re: The "I ____ America" poll.

    You only need to live outside the United States for a period of at least 6 months to a year to appreciate what our ancestors died for. I pray for Cindy Sheehan but the best way to honor her son is to support HIS efforts in the war.

  4. #4
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    Re: The "I ____ America" poll.

    By the by, Kevin: if you disagree with a bad call by a ref, does that mean you hate football?

    Not a good analogy. A football game is an event in our lives. The freedom we enjoy IS our life.

  5. #5
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    Re: The "I ____ America" poll.

    Its the gristly bits in the American Pie that prevents me from going the whole nine yards in the poll.
    "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." - Anais Nin.
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  6. #6
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    Re: The "I ____ America" poll.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam
    Not a good analogy. A football game is an event in our lives. The freedom we enjoy IS our life.
    False charge of Fallacy. Just because you don't feel it's a good analogy does not mean it is a false analogy. The argument stands.

  7. #7
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    Re: The "I ____ America" poll.

    Quote Originally Posted by Godlesspagan
    False charge of Fallacy. Just because you don't feel it's a good analogy does not mean it is a false analogy. The argument stands.

    I did not say it was a false analogy. It is not an analogy that would pertain to what we are discussing.

  8. #8
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    Re: The "I ____ America" poll.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam
    I did not say it was a false analogy. It is not an analogy that would pertain to what we are discussing.
    How is it the case that the analogy has nothing to do with the discussion, yet it is not false? By that very definition, when you assign relevence to the analogy you are claiming that it is false. Also, if the analogy precisely matched what you were discussing, it would no longer be an analogy.

    Main Entry: analˇoˇgy
    Pronunciation: &-'na-l&-jE
    Function: noun
    Inflected Form(s): plural -gies
    1 : inference that if two or more things agree with one another in some respects they will prob. agree in others
    2 a : resemblance in some particulars between things otherwise unlike : SIMILARITY b : comparison based on such resemblance
    3 : correspondence between the members of pairs or sets of linguistic forms that serves as a basis for the creation of another form
    4 : correspondence in function between anatomical parts of different structure and origin -- compare HOMOLOGY
    synonym see LIKENESS

  9. #9
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    Re: The "I ____ America" poll.

    Quote Originally Posted by Godlesspagan
    How is it the case that the analogy has nothing to do with the discussion, yet it is not false? By that very definition, when you assign relevence to the analogy you are claiming that it is false. Also, if the analogy precisely matched what you were discussing, it would no longer be an analogy.

    Main Entry: analˇoˇgy
    Pronunciation: &-'na-l&-jE
    Function: noun
    Inflected Form(s): plural -gies
    1 : inference that if two or more things agree with one another in some respects they will prob. agree in others
    2 a : resemblance in some particulars between things otherwise unlike : SIMILARITY b : comparison based on such resemblance
    3 : correspondence between the members of pairs or sets of linguistic forms that serves as a basis for the creation of another form
    4 : correspondence in function between anatomical parts of different structure and origin -- compare HOMOLOGY
    synonym see LIKENESS

    I stand corrected. It is then a false analogy. We are talking about our life here in the United States. A football game is just a part of the lives of some Americans. The war that the United States is involved in ultimately would affect all Americans.

  10. #10
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    Re: The "I ____ America" poll.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam
    It is then a false analogy. We are talking about our life here in the United States. A football game is just a part of the lives of some Americans.
    You cannot claim an analogy false because of irrelevant inconsistencies.

    Life is like a box of chocolates; but life doesn't have a box, you can't get life at a grocery store, it doesn't come with coconut crap in certain chocolates. Life is like a box of chocolates because "you never know what you're going to get".

    Likewise, asking "Do you hate the country?" is similar to asking "Do you hate football?" I dislike the set of people currently calling the shots in the country, thought I am quite fond of the principles that this country is founded on, and for which it stands. Similarly, I might dislike the person calling the shots in a football game, but I still enjoy the spirit of the game, the strategy, the physical ability required, etc. The analogy is apt.

    And thus, I must ask KB, what do you define as the country? Are we referring to the physical ground? In which case it's not much better or worse than most other places. Are we referring to principles upon which it was founded? In that case, I love it. Are we referring to the actions it has taken recently? In that case I dislike it. Are we referring to actions it has taken historically? In that case, it's done pretty well, with the exception of slavery, IMO. Are we referring to the leadership? To the populace? What?

    You cannot make such a lump statement, then say "Don't ask which part", for the answer changes dramatically based on what you define as "America".
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  11. #11
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    Re: The "I ____ America" poll.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iluvatar
    You cannot claim an analogy false because of irrelevant inconsistencies.
    A false analogy is merely a charge of relevant dissimilarities. I think that is what she is trying to do. But it must be said, this is not what she has shown to be true, yet.
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  12. #12
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    Re: The "I ____ America" poll.

    It is a false analogy. The only way it could be a good analogy is if people protested in front of the ref and demanded that he change his call. This would be a disruption for the rest of the spectators, espicially the ones who agreed with the ref's call. This would take away from the enjoyment of the game of football.

  13. #13
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    Re: The "I ____ America" poll.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam
    It is a false analogy. The only way it could be a good analogy is if people protested in front of the ref and demanded that he change his call. This would be a disruption for the rest of the spectators, espicially the ones who agreed with the ref's call. This would take away from the enjoyment of the game of football.
    Oooook then. So it would seem that the claim here is that protesting the decisions of the government is distrustful to the nation. Didn't we fight a war or something over our RIGHT to protest the government, among other things?

    Besides which, this is still not relevant to the analogy. The point of that analogy was that one can love the game, but not the ref; and the country, but not the leadership.
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  14. #14
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    Re: The "I ____ America" poll.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iluvatar
    Besides which, this is still not relevant to the analogy. The point of that analogy was that one can love the game, but not the ref; and the country, but not the leadership.

    I agree with this but do all those protesting the war really love their country? I heard Cindy Sheehan on T.V. say she would have brought her son to Canada. Does she love this country only in good times?

  15. #15
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    Re: The "I ____ America" poll.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam
    It is a false analogy. The only way it could be a good analogy is if people protested in front of the ref and demanded that he change his call. This would be a disruption for the rest of the spectators, espicially the ones who agreed with the ref's call. This would take away from the enjoyment of the game of football.
    What you're missing, Sam is the very obvious hypocricy of the conservative thought process.

    If I say, "I don't think the ref should have called that player offsides." We do not instantly jump to the conclusion that I "hate football" and such an assertion would be laughed at for the absurdity that it represents: If I hated football, I WOULDN'T CARE about a bad call.

    Likewise, if I were to say "I don't think the president should have invaded Iraq" leaping to the conclusion that I "hate America" is equally absurd. Liberals speak out as they do BECAUSE they love this country. Liberals speak out as they do BECAUSE they have respect for our fighting women & men... enough respect to make sure that the awesome sacrifices they make aren't being made for nothing... and with fresh reports of American troops killed, gas prices hitting $2.50 a gallon, and Islamic law creeping into a former secular state (Iraq) I'm aghast that you could delude yourself into any other conclusion.

  16. #16
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    Re: The "I ____ America" poll.

    Can someone add "Liberal" after "hate" in "I hate america" It would help me more clearly speak my mind
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  17. #17
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    Re: The "I ____ America" poll.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhavric
    Likewise, if I were to say "I don't think the president should have invaded Iraq" leaping to the conclusion that I "hate America" is equally absurd. Liberals speak out as they do BECAUSE they love this country. Liberals speak out as they do BECAUSE they have respect for our fighting women & men... enough respect to make sure that the awesome sacrifices they make aren't being made for nothing...

    I agree with you. But it's like the mother who says she is against abortion until her daughter becomes pregnant. Suddenly it hits home and abortion might not always be wrong. I have two sons. I would hate for them to go to war. However, I don't believe you have to like President Bush to SEE that it is better to fight the war in Iraq now rather than fight here later on.

  18. #18
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    Re: The "I ____ America" poll.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam
    I agree with you. But it's like the mother who says she is against abortion until her daughter becomes pregnant. Suddenly it hits home and abortion might not always be wrong. I have two sons. I would hate for them to go to war. However, I don't believe you have to like President Bush to SEE that it is better to fight the war in Iraq now rather than fight here later on.
    You mean the war he was going to wage on us with all those WMD's he had stockpiled?

  19. #19
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    Re: The "I ____ America" poll.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhavric
    What you're missing, Sam is the very obvious hypocricy of the conservative thought process.
    Hypocricy of the "conservative" thought process? I assume you are commenting on Sam's comment, but how has she shown herself to be a conservative? She has certainly demonstrated she is a condom promoting Christian. A conservative, though? I don't recall her giving opinions on social wellfare, taxation, or foreign policy. How, exactly, did you determine she was a Conservative? Because she voted for the pseudo-conservative, George Bush? Seriously, though, your bashing of Conservatives has become as ridiculous as Sam's ability to relate every topic to contraception.

    But, if you wish to speak of hypocricy, look no further than the new poster child of the Democratic party's left-wing. Not one Dem has distanced themselves from Ms. Sheehan. Maurine Dowd has noted she has absolute moral authority. Yet, when a soldier has died and his parents claim pride for his ability and desire to serve his country, such moral authority is either ignored or refuted. You want hypocricy? Ask how it is ok for a mother to claim this is not a country worth dying for, and then have the audacity to demand an audience with the president? How is it ok for a mother to use her son as a political tool? Now, if the Dems would openly admit she is off her rocker, that would be fine. Instead, they applaud her. This is hypocricy.
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  20. #20
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    Re: The "I ____ America" poll.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhavric
    Liberals speak out as they do BECAUSE they love this country. Liberals speak out as they do BECAUSE they have respect for our fighting women & men... enough respect to make sure that the awesome sacrifices they make aren't being made for nothing.
    Zhavric, so you're saying the reason liberals say they hate America is because they love America? OK, it's starting to make sense...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhavric
    if you disagree with a bad call by a ref, does that mean you hate football?
    That was a potentially good analogy, except that you forgot about all the liberal people in the stands who actually are shouting "That was a rotten call, and we hate football because of it!" You have run the razzle-dazzle back into your own end zone. And there is no flag on the play.

 

 
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