Welcome guest, is this your first visit? Create Account now to join.
  • Login:

Welcome to the Online Debate Network.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.

Results 1 to 8 of 8
  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    631
    Post Thanks / Like

    Reality vs. The Mentally Ill

    Finally, I have a decent intellectual conversation, a nice vacation from the normal pedestrian conversation. I asked a good comrade of mine, "Is reality subjective?" This, bien sur, opens up a storm of controvesy, of which, none can be proven or disproven. Fun. I believe there are two main possibilities in this unsolveable mystery: One static and never changing reality, or multiple, even infinite realities. In my opinion, I believe the latter holds the most water. But please even though I mention the Christian Church, try to keep this discussion mainly secular.

    1. One Reality. The one reality theory is an interesting one, it requires a, how do I say this, a Christian mind. Now let me explain that. I say Christian mind as the method that the Church teaches: this is how it happened, this is how it is, there is no alternative, everyone else is wrong. (I am not bashing the church in anyway, I am a member myself.) For the one static, what "sane" people see, feel, and think is reality, i.e., there is a general unspoken consensus on what it is. If you do not see what the consensus defines, then you are insane. For example, let's say the consensus is the current one in our world (if you don't know what that is, commit yourself to your local insane asylum), and what you see is that everyone is infact shapeshifting monsters out to kill you because you know that they are shapeshifting monsters. People wouldn't understand you, you would speak constant gibberish, if you will, and you would be committed to your local institution for the mental. You are insane, and that is "improper". One reality, one truth.

    2. Multiple Realities. The multiple reality theory is more kind to the, if I may, mentally unstable. It simply says that reality is what you create for yourself. If you think that everyone is a shapeshifting monster out to get you, then, it's true. They are. It's your reality. Still there is still the main consensus reality, and every other reality is based off of that. It does not include say, realities that are based in different dimensions (because we have never experienced that, so one might say that realities are based off of experience). This theory also institutes a level of fear, myself included. Let me explain. You, as you are right now, may just be a simple pipedream of a insane man in a insane aslyum. Everything you have ever done, accomplished, just doesn't exist, it was only a dream. Scary, no? Because really, if you believe that what you see, feel, and hear is real, then it is, right?

    Any other thoughts on this?
    "The essential act of war is destruction, not necessarily of human lives, but of the products of human labour. War is a way of shattering to pieces, or pouring into the stratosphere, or sinking in the depths of the sea, materials which might otherwise be used to make the masses too comfortable, and hence, in the long run, too intelligent." 1984, By George Orwell. Part 2: Chapter 9.

  2. #2
    Owner / Senior Admin

    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    19,347
    Post Thanks / Like
    #2 is like the Matrix "reality" then?
    -=]Apokalupsis[=-
    Senior Administrator
    -------------------------

    I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. - Thomas Jefferson




  3. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    631
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis
    #2 is like the Matrix "reality" then?
    No, maybe I spoke my point unclearly. Basically the second theory is saying that there is the general reality, what most people see, and then there are an infinite number of sub-realities, existing in cults, brainwashing, where the world around you isn't the same world everyone else lives in. Kind of like the joke, "I'm here on Earth, where are you?" Maybe kind of like Nightmare on Elm St. 1? So it's saying that people who are insane, aren't really insane, just living in a different reality. I guess the matrix would be the majority of the reality, then be the general one and the actual reality is a smaller one. But I'm not talking about virtual reality or drugs in any way. But I guess prolonged drug use could make someone view the world in a different reality. It's quite hard to explain this point, as you can see. But I hope you can grasp my idea.
    "The essential act of war is destruction, not necessarily of human lives, but of the products of human labour. War is a way of shattering to pieces, or pouring into the stratosphere, or sinking in the depths of the sea, materials which might otherwise be used to make the masses too comfortable, and hence, in the long run, too intelligent." 1984, By George Orwell. Part 2: Chapter 9.

  4. #4
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Within view of Wrigley Field
    Posts
    346
    Post Thanks / Like
    I'm not sure if I totally get what you are saying.

    Both of your options seem to deal with how we as humans interpret reality.

    In your "One Reality" option I would substitute our ability to understand reality through Science, and not some absolute Dogma. For instance, there is one true reality that we try and interpret through human senses and understanding, that we struggle to agree upon. Perhaps here we could use the adage of the blind men and the elephant.

    Your "multiple realities", where each individual interprets their own reality, is what the Human experience is, but not reality. That is a truly frightening thought about "losing your grip" on reality. Schizophrenics, for instance, do have there own reality. To them it is real, hearing voices, seeing things, all real. In school I'd worry myself about developing Schizophrenia. The confusion, the fear being the only clues that something isn't right.

    Regardless, different humans see reality and interpret things differently. It's all filtered through our human mind. That doesn't change reality necessarily.

  5. #5
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    631
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Withnail
    Regardless, different humans see reality and interpret things differently. It's all filtered through our human mind. That doesn't change reality necessarily.
    You see I wrote that a long time ago, I extracted it from a log, and I didn't revise my words, a bad decision. But what I'm saying is personal reality, as in everyone has their slightly own different reality. Some are worse than others, and some so much, that they are unfit for society, hence the mentally ill. But reality is merely defined as truth, and what is truth? Being factual? To whom? I guess one could say the majority. So, I guess I can surmise that there is the main reality, and people within that reality differ slightly, but still functionally fit according to it. And everyone who isn't, may not know that they are insane, the world has changed around them. Maybe they haven't changed at all, in a philosophical sense, but of course they have in a psycholigal sense. This remains a very hard concept to fully describe, so let me try once more.

    Let's take Tito for example. Tito is a normal human, nothing really deviant or anything. He now is part of the main reality. But then for some unknown reason, he starts to hear things, see things he doesn't understand. People start talking in different voices, many things are disproportionated, and he doesn't quite understand what's going on. To him, he still thinks the same and acts the same way, but to other people he is a nutjob. He is in his own reality. To the people in the main reality, Tito is unfit for society and placed in an insane aslyum. Maybe he's not crazy, just his body's dischiphering of the information, differently. Therefore to him, everyone else is crazy, and we think he is. I think that's the best I can explain it.
    "The essential act of war is destruction, not necessarily of human lives, but of the products of human labour. War is a way of shattering to pieces, or pouring into the stratosphere, or sinking in the depths of the sea, materials which might otherwise be used to make the masses too comfortable, and hence, in the long run, too intelligent." 1984, By George Orwell. Part 2: Chapter 9.

  6. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Within view of Wrigley Field
    Posts
    346
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Kneeless
    But reality is merely defined as truth, and what is truth? Being factual? To whom? I guess one could say the majority.
    There is no reality by consensus. Or at least there shouldn't be. Your question of "what is reality" is a great and basic philisophical question and I'm really not prepared to address it.

    Think of the major events of the world. We only really know about them through the news, a sort of filter that we believe in. How do we know that these events are real?

    I'm not sure if that's it. I willl argue that anyone or any group who claim's to firmly grasp reality should be viewed suspiciously. If anyone claims to have all the answers than they have ulterior motives. Life is a big quest, a big question. The joy is in the seeking. Or something.

  7. #7
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    631
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Withnail
    There is no reality by consensus. Or at least there shouldn't be. Your question of "what is reality" is a great and basic philisophical question and I'm really not prepared to address it.

    Think of the major events of the world. We only really know about them through the news, a sort of filter that we believe in. How do we know that these events are real?

    I'm not sure if that's it. I willl argue that anyone or any group who claim's to firmly grasp reality should be viewed suspiciously. If anyone claims to have all the answers than they have ulterior motives. Life is a big quest, a big question. The joy is in the seeking. Or something.
    Well said. But what I'm talking about is more of a personal generic reality then a worldwide generic reality. It's more like an island. On this island there are five people. Of those five people, one is having problems. The normal island life isn't what it used to be. He's seeing things, Gizmo popping up every now and again, and whenever he tries to talk to the other four, they don't know what he's talking about. His mind is slowly slipping into something that noone understands, not even him. Now he's in Bedrock, living as Barney, best friend of Fred. To him, everything is now fine in Bedrock. The other four people are scattered about the characters in the Flinstones and he converses with them all the time. The other four people know for a fact that he's crazy. Now the four people are the general reality, the consensus. Barney (the odd one out) is the "insane" one. But is he insane? Or just in a different reality that's perfectly veritable? This can also be applied to the real world, but not in the way you spoke of Withnail. I'm saying that a "sane" person is part of the generic reality, while an insane one has his own.
    "The essential act of war is destruction, not necessarily of human lives, but of the products of human labour. War is a way of shattering to pieces, or pouring into the stratosphere, or sinking in the depths of the sea, materials which might otherwise be used to make the masses too comfortable, and hence, in the long run, too intelligent." 1984, By George Orwell. Part 2: Chapter 9.

  8. #8
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Sheffield, S.Yorks., UK
    Posts
    8,862
    Post Thanks / Like
    There is but one reality, but there are many interpretations. As Pontius Pilatus put it to Jesus, "What is truth"?

    We all have some slant on reality with some definitions being perhaps more obtuse than others. All of us are subject to our genetic makeup and our 'experiences' in this respect.

    Even, so called 'madness' is part of the same reality; subject to the same law of cause and effect.

    What is 'madness' anyway if not an interpretation of cultural perception? We Brits are several times more likely to be diagnosed as 'schizophrenic' if we are on Uncle Sam's side of The Pond than our own!!!!!!

    There is nothing more frightening to behold than to see or hear a person who 'feels' (an irrationality anyway) certain that they have a grasp on all the facts and are therefore (English English) shielded by truth and reality from any meaningful and rational challenge.

 

 

Similar Threads

  1. Nuking Japan
    By Telex in forum History
    Replies: 131
    Last Post: January 28th, 2005, 01:01 PM
  2. Eternal Punishment
    By Apokalupsis in forum Religion
    Replies: 78
    Last Post: June 1st, 2004, 07:41 PM
  3. Is it reasonable to believe in a god?
    By F1Fan in forum Philosophical Debates
    Replies: 54
    Last Post: March 22nd, 2004, 03:51 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •