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  1. #1
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    Do you believe guns kill people?

    The question asked is an offshoot of another thread, i am asking specificly if you believe guns are capable of killing people, or if they need an outside force to guide them.

    I personally do not think guns capable of killing people on their own.


    Seriously though who here thinks guns are a huge issue and why?
    Be prepared to read true statistics when posting yours as i will respond to this it is an issue close to me as i own guns and love them dearly.

  2. #2
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    Re: Do you believe guns kill people?

    Guns don't kill people. People kill people. The presence or absence of guns contributes to gun crime, but not necessarily murder in general. Although I personally think that anyone would admit that murder is more likely to happen if you hand someone a killing machine than if you force them to seek more difficult alternatives.

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    Re: Do you believe guns kill people?

    Quote Originally Posted by wannaextreme
    The question asked is an offshoot of another thread, i am asking specificly if you believe guns are capable of killing people, or if they need an outside force to guide them.
    They need an outside force, IE, a someone or something to squeeze the trigger.
    Quote Originally Posted by wannaextreme
    Seriously though who here thinks guns are a huge issue and why?
    I don't think guns themselves are a problem. Like Chris Rock said, make bullets really expensive so they make sure they hit who they're shooting at.
    But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.
    1 Peter 3:15-16

  4. #4
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    Re: Do you believe guns kill people?

    Guns don't kill people. People kill people
    That's exactly what I was going to say!

    as i own guns and love them dearly.
    I'm with ya there, wanna. I grew up around guns, although, my father was not a hunter, we always had guns in the house. I was taught to respect guns and taught how to handle them safely. It was always fun to go shooting with my dad. And my close friends learned two things from me,
    1. how to shoot,
    2. how to play poker and chess.
    It drives me nuts when people like, Rosie O'Donnell go on and on about how horrible guns are, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, take away our guns...outlaw them. Then only the criminals will have them.
    I can only be who He allows me to be, I can only stand where He places me. 1Peter 5:6
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  5. #5
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    Re: Do you believe guns kill people?

    Quote Originally Posted by wannaextreme
    Seriously though who here thinks guns are a huge issue and why?
    Be prepared to read true statistics when posting yours as i will respond to this it is an issue close to me as i own guns and love them dearly.

    So who thinks they are a huge issue and why (now that we have semi established that they are incapable of killing on their own- without outside assitance)

  6. #6
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    Re: Do you believe guns kill people?

    I agree w/ the above sentiments...however, I'll play devil's advocate for the debate...


    Isn't this like saying...drugs don't kill people, people kill people? Then, it's the person's fault for doing drugs. So then why the "war on drugs"? It isn't the drug's fault. Sure, some drugs serve the purpose of only giving a high, nothing more (ie. no medicinal purposes), but then, some guns only serve the purpose of killing another human being in an offensive meausure as opposed to sport or defensive (not hunting, not self-defense, etc...).

    So isn't this a bit hypocritical? We criticize and label drugs as the problem when someone dies as a result of drug use, but we criticize and label people as the problem when someone dies as a result of gun violence.

    Lack of inconsistency = lack of validity of the statement "Guns don't kill people, people kill people".
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  7. #7
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    Re: Do you believe guns kill people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis
    I agree w/ the above sentiments...however, I'll play devil's advocate for the debate...


    Isn't this like saying...drugs don't kill people, people kill people? Then, it's the person's fault for doing drugs. So then why the "war on drugs"? It isn't the drug's fault. Sure, some drugs serve the purpose of only giving a high, nothing more (ie. no medicinal purposes), but then, some guns only serve the purpose of killing another human being in an offensive meausure as opposed to sport or defensive (not hunting, not self-defense, etc...).

    So isn't this a bit hypocritical? We criticize and label drugs as the problem when someone dies as a result of drug use, but we criticize and label people as the problem when someone dies as a result of gun violence.

    Lack of inconsistency = lack of validity of the statement "Guns don't kill people, people kill people".
    I like you apok however this debate is purely about guns hence the title guns.
    However in answer to your question and further statement regarding this, people have their own lives (to an extent when in regards to anything they can do to themselves or others while consciously in control of said thing) Basically meaning car wrecks caused by other drivers not paying attention are the fault of the other drivers not paying attention no one else, car wrecks caused by faulty parts (can be said to be caused by the mechanics or technicians putting the parts together) however car wrecks caused by a boulder falling is a natural phenomena and has nothing to be controlled about it (unless there is supposed to be a guard rail or fence to keep the boulders back and than , well you get the point)
    DRUG overdoses are caused by weak willed individuals who give in too and believe every little whim that passes their weasley little existences, ( i have no tolerance for people who can control no part of their life)
    Killings as a result of drug shipping or distributing is caused by those that buck the system and illegally process said substances.
    However in my mind there are no instances of accidental deaths relating to illegal drugs. BECAUSE NO ONE SHOULD BE USING, SHIPPING, DISTRIBUTING these substances when they are illegal therefore anyone involved (minus youths/ small children with no choice in meth houses/ crack houses etc/ ) who is an adult and able to properly consider the results of their actions are responsible for what occurs especially in the cases of children involved unfortunatley in these situations.

    Guns are legal, as a result accidents are possible, however in most cases avoidable with proper usage of these tools of hunting, or as my fiance calls them killing.
    Once again guns cannot kill people on their own they are merely a tool and that is all.

  8. #8
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    Re: Do you believe guns kill people?

    When you do drugs...it's basically like playing Russian roullette anyway. Noone has ever done drugs (other than marijuana) for any GOOD reason. And even those who use medicinal marijuana need to be taught to use it responsibly. Guns protect, they used to kill dinner, they can be used for sport. Drugs have one purpose...to get you high. You can't say this gun is bad cause it was used to kill someone, and this one is good because it killed deer for dinner. It's not the gun..it's the person weilding the gun.
    I can only be who He allows me to be, I can only stand where He places me. 1Peter 5:6
    The true man wants two things: danger and play. For that reason he wants woman, as the most dangerous plaything. ---Friedrich Nietzsche

  9. #9
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    Re: Do you believe guns kill people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis
    Isn't this like saying...drugs don't kill people, people kill people? Then, it's the person's fault for doing drugs. So then why the "war on drugs"? It isn't the drug's fault. Sure, some drugs serve the purpose of only giving a high, nothing more (ie. no medicinal purposes), but then, some guns only serve the purpose of killing another human being in an offensive meausure as opposed to sport or defensive (not hunting, not self-defense, etc...).
    While it may seem hypocritical, a gun can ALWAYS be a Defensive or Hunting measure, so there's a constructive use and a reasonable defense for it. Drugs (illegal ones), outside marijuana have no such defense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis
    So isn't this a bit hypocritical? We criticize and label drugs as the problem when someone dies as a result of drug use, but we criticize and label people as the problem when someone dies as a result of gun violence.
    There was a ban on assault weapons that lasted up until a year or two ago. So obviously SOMEONE thought guns, and not people, were the problem.
    But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.
    1 Peter 3:15-16

  10. #10
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    Re: Do you believe guns kill people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Hyde
    While it may seem hypocritical, a gun can ALWAYS be a Defensive or Hunting measure, so there's a constructive use and a reasonable defense for it. Drugs (illegal ones), outside marijuana have no such defense.

    There was a ban on assault weapons that lasted up until a year or two ago. So obviously SOMEONE thought guns, and not people, were the problem.

    In answer to the top see previous post by myself, however in answer to the ban on assault weapons im glad you brought that up, how much do you know about the ban and what guns exactly it banned> ? Also do you know what an assault weapon is ( not really directing this towards you hyde i assume you know lol)
    Assault weapons by deffinition are

    assault rifle
    One entry found for assault rifle.
    Main Entry: assault rifle
    Function: noun
    : any of various automatic or semiautomatic rifles designed for military use with large capacity magazines

    Now on the list of guns (original list) to be banned were the thompson center fire pistol- this particular gun was on the list merely because it has the ability to interchange barrels and calibers- it is a single shot weapon and there is absolutely no way to change that capacity.
    (it was after debate taken off i believe)
    There were other inaccuracies as well, by the anti gun legislators who were headed by the brady anti hand gun violence people, who are notoriously bad for using partial or fully improvised statistics.

    If you want i can go into detail on this?

  11. #11
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    Re: Do you believe guns kill people?

    Quote Originally Posted by wannaextreme
    If you want i can go into detail on this?
    All I really know is that during the ban, my brother couldn't buy an AK47, and after it was lifted, he went out and bought one. Damn fine gun.

    But please, go into more detail. It's a gun issue, and the ban is/was part of that issue.
    But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.
    1 Peter 3:15-16

  12. #12
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    Re: Do you believe guns kill people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Hyde
    There was a ban on assault weapons that lasted up until a year or two ago.
    A ban that was used by politicians to posture, not to actually prevent automatic weapons from being purchased. I've heard it described as a ban on "things that look like automatic weapons"; it was based in some parts on purely cosmetic concerns, and could be avoided by making small, inexpensive modifications on legal guns.
    If I am capable of grasping God objectively, I do not believe, but precisely because I cannot do this I must believe. - Soren Kierkegaard
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  13. #13
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    Re: Do you believe guns kill people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Hyde
    All I really know is that during the ban, my brother couldn't buy an AK47, and after it was lifted, he went out and bought one. Damn fine gun.

    But please, go into more detail. It's a gun issue, and the ban is/was part of that issue.
    Ok gladly and i agree i too own one of those great little plinking weapon, and most commenly pictured gun for anti gun crime advocates in the united states as well as the glock handgun.
    First fact the ak model rifle actually has many different model numbers ak- 74, ak- 47, akm , mak, slr-95 and the commonley mistaken for the ak cousin the sks style.
    Ok as for the ban and facts did you know that the most commonly used and stolen weapons are .38 caliber (revolver not automatic) handguns?
    see following stats a little bit of a read but worth it (if you care about the truth i use this one alot)
    http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/guic.pdf

    and that machine guns (in which the ak and its variants would fall) was used in less than .01 percent of all gun crimes in the united states?

    It is a widely accepted and known fact to law enforcement that criminals choose weapons based on ease of use not accuracy or even stopping power as other gun minded individuals would do (law abiding citizens such as you and i might choose a gun based on its logistics and accuracy as well as its reliabilty) whereas the most commonly used guns are brands like Lorcen, Jennings these manufactures sadly have very poor ratings in fact i once owned (about 5 years ago by mistake lol) a jennings nine millimeter model ( i personally prefer .40 lol) it jammed on every ammo type except ball type ammo made by federal or remmington. Useless little gun and im glad criminals like them this means im better protected.
    Last edited by wanxtrmBANNED; February 18th, 2006 at 08:55 PM.

  14. #14
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    Re: Do you believe guns kill people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis
    I agree w/ the above sentiments...however, I'll play devil's advocate for the debate...


    Isn't this like saying...drugs don't kill people, people kill people? Then, it's the person's fault for doing drugs. So then why the "war on drugs"? It isn't the drug's fault. Sure, some drugs serve the purpose of only giving a high, nothing more (ie. no medicinal purposes), but then, some guns only serve the purpose of killing another human being in an offensive meausure as opposed to sport or defensive (not hunting, not self-defense, etc...).

    So isn't this a bit hypocritical? We criticize and label drugs as the problem when someone dies as a result of drug use, but we criticize and label people as the problem when someone dies as a result of gun violence.

    Lack of inconsistency = lack of validity of the statement "Guns don't kill people, people kill people".
    Very good opposite argument, I have to say. I would not have thought of this strong a case. However, we must realize when looking at any offense or negative phenomenon that there are two factors: the will to commit it and the relevant substances or materials. Gun crime cannot be committed without guns, but in the end it cannot be committed without intention either. Drug crime cannot be committed without drugs, but cannot be committed without intention either. To stop drug crime without controlling people and removing their fundamental liberties we must take the option of limiting the drugs, without which drug crime would not exist. We take the easiest solution to the problem that doesn't limit civil liberties, I suppose I'm trying to say.

  15. #15
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    Re: Do you believe guns kill people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apok
    I agree w/ the above sentiments...however, I'll play devil's advocate for the debate...


    Isn't this like saying...drugs don't kill people, people kill people? Then, it's the person's fault for doing drugs. So then why the "war on drugs"? It isn't the drug's fault. Sure, some drugs serve the purpose of only giving a high, nothing more (ie. no medicinal purposes), but then, some guns only serve the purpose of killing another human being in an offensive meausure as opposed to sport or defensive (not hunting, not self-defense, etc...).

    So isn't this a bit hypocritical? We criticize and label drugs as the problem when someone dies as a result of drug use, but we criticize and label people as the problem when someone dies as a result of gun violence.

    Lack of inconsistency = lack of validity of the statement "Guns don't kill people, people kill people".
    Drugs are an addictive substance. Guns are not. Drug use effects brain chemistry, personality, etc.; guns just shoot bullets.
    If I am capable of grasping God objectively, I do not believe, but precisely because I cannot do this I must believe. - Soren Kierkegaard
    **** you, I won't do what you tell me

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  16. #16
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    Re: Do you believe guns kill people?

    I'm not sure this is a matter of belief at all. Guns do kill people, but only when people shoot them at other people and strike a lethal hit, or one shoots it lethally at oneself. That's not really a good argument for outlawing guns, though, since many, many objects which people have the right to can be used to kill other people. There were plenty of murders before guns were invented. Also, it is not always bad for one to kill another person. Guns can be used to murder, but they can also be used to kill or simply to injure in self-defense or defense of family. It is a fallacy that no act of killing is morally permissible, and our society and legal system recognize this ethical consensus.

  17. #17
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    Re: Do you believe guns kill people?

    Without 'people' involvement....drugs nor guns would kill.

    Therefore, I would have stay with the notion that it's people that kill, not guns.

    If there were no guns, people would find other methods for killing.

    When there are no drugs available, people find ways to make them, right out of their own kitchen.

    Christ you can buy books on how to manufacture right off the internet!

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  18. #18
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    Re: Do you believe guns kill people?

    If there were no guns, people would find other methods for killing
    Fantastic point, Syl!!!
    I can only be who He allows me to be, I can only stand where He places me. 1Peter 5:6
    The true man wants two things: danger and play. For that reason he wants woman, as the most dangerous plaything. ---Friedrich Nietzsche

  19. #19
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    Re: Do you believe guns kill people?

    Quote Originally Posted by southernbelle
    It drives me nuts when people like, Rosie O'Donnell go on and on about how horrible guns are, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, take away our guns...outlaw them. Then only the criminals will have them.
    That reminds me of one of my favorite lines: If guns kill people, then pencils mispel words and spoons made Rosie O'Donnell fat.
    Ezekiel 4:12 (King James Version)
    And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight.

  20. #20
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    Re: Do you believe guns kill people?

    Guns don't kill people. People kill people.
    Guns don't kill people. Bullets kill people.

    (Well, someone had to say it.)

 

 
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