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  1. #1
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    Hey, Young Man, What's Wrong With You?

    "According to the Census Bureau, fully one-third of young men ages 22 to 34 are still living at home with their parents -- a roughly 100 percent increase in the past 20 years. No such change has occurred with regard to young women. Why?"

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...033001341.html

  2. #2
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    Re: Hey, Young Man, What's Wrong With You?

    1. women rarely get hammered for "child" support.

    2. Men have expenses women don't, primarily the affections of the opposite sex.

    3. Many young men are attempting to save for the deposit on a home, so some woman can divorce them and keep it.

    4. Men are being steadily disenfranchised from modern US society and many don't really give a *bleep* anymore.

    5. Many women with their "own" place have it paid for by the guy they kicked out or the state, because they "have baybee".


    Now, cue all the "men are just big spoilt kids who can't fend for themselves" drivel from the kneejerkers..



    P.
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    "We must make clear to the Germans that the wrong for which their fallen leaders are on trial is not that they lost the war, but that they started it."
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  3. #3
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    Re: Hey, Young Man, What's Wrong With You?

    Pibs, care to back that up with any, you know, solid facts?

    3. Many young men are attempting to save for the deposit on a home, so some woman can divorce them and keep it.
    Did you even read the article?

    But those young women usually have a definite plan. They're working toward a college degree, or they're saving money to open their own business. And when you come back three or four years later, you'll find that in most cases those young women have achieved their goal, or something like it. They've earned that degree. They've opened their business.

    But not the boys.
    Women are saving up also. And they still are achieving their goals quicker.

    5. Many women with their "own" place have it paid for by the guy they kicked out or the state, because they "have baybee".
    Oh yea, because a woman can never live without a mayun. It's all about the penis and lawd forbid wimmin' don't have that available at all times. Their vaginal orifice might sew itself shut.

    I personally think it has to do with the fact that in my experience girls don't really get along with their mother so they are doing everything in their power to leave. Men tend to have better relationships with their mother and are more comfy at home. Obviously this isn't the case for every single person, just something I have observed with my friends, and other people around me.
    "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." ~Bertrand Russell

  4. #4
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    Re: Hey, Young Man, What's Wrong With You?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie
    Women are saving up also. And they still are achieving their goals quicker.
    Wonder why that is, if women are so oppressed in the classroom, workplace, bedroom, public facilities, etc...


    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie
    Oh yea, because a woman can never live without a mayun. It's all about the penis and lawd forbid wimmin' don't have that available at all times. Their vaginal orifice might sew itself shut.
    That's the sound of the point going over your head.

    The point was that women have a lower entrance level because they have an advantage over men: the legal system favors them. It isn't that women rely on men; rather, that women can and do get child support and alimony to help with bills, not that they should.


    I think it's because the education system in this country doesn't give two s**ts about boys. They've fallen prey to the feminist propaganda that girls are oppressed by the Boys' club. Just look at the dropout rates among boys and girls. The boys' rate is usually 100% to 150% higher. The suicide rates are similarly unbalanced. These boys grow into men who are collectively unprepared to go out into the world. Just look at the number of women who enter colleges/universities versus men. It favors the women, and it has for a while now.

    But you're probably right: men are just more comfortable with their mothers. There's nothing wrong the system; there couldn't be, because it's designed by women, for women!
    If I am capable of grasping God objectively, I do not believe, but precisely because I cannot do this I must believe. - Soren Kierkegaard
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  5. #5
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    Re: Hey, Young Man, What's Wrong With You?

    Quote Originally Posted by Clive
    Wonder why that is, if women are so oppressed in the classroom, workplace, bedroom, public facilities, etc...
    Who said that women are oppressed in all that you list?

    The point was that women have a lower entrance level because they have an advantage over men: the legal system favors them. It isn't that women rely on men; rather, that women can and do get child support and alimony to help with bills, not that they should.
    Child support aside, you have to be married before a woman is granted alimony and in most states you have to be married for a significant amount of time, and women also pay alimony and child support. It might not be at the same rate, but it isn't only males paying those costs. And of course, no man should ever pay for his responsibilities. But we already had this debate.

    I think it's because the education system in this country doesn't give two s**ts about boys.
    Any evidence to back that up?

    Just look at the dropout rates among boys and girls. The boys' rate is usually 100% to 150% higher.

    Yep, looking at the rates.

    http://www.moreland.k12.ca.us/Discov...ropout_rk.html

    Gender: It appears that boys and girls do not significantly differ in dropout rates. However, they seem to drop out for different reasons: Girls are most likely to drop out of school due to pregnancy and marriage, while boys are more likely to drop out to seek employment. Additionally, boys are twice as likely to dropout as girls due to behavioral difficulties

    And every other link that I found is telling me the samething. Care to show where you read that the rate is usually 100%-150% higher because I am not finding it.

    The suicide rates are similarly unbalanced.
    That actual death rate is higher, but attempts by girls are more frequent. Either way teenage suicide is very disturbing.

    These boys grow into men who are collectively unprepared to go out into the world.
    Which is the fault of the parents. Not the school districts, and not feminists. Men, when they realize they aren't prepared, can prepare themselves by attending school, and becoming a grown up and wearing big boy pants.

    Just look at the number of women who enter colleges/universities versus men.
    So it appears women value education where it seems men don't place a high value on it. Look at drop out rates. Men most likely drop out to work. Women stick with it and are getting the higher paying and better jobs. It's all about life choices. Apparently more men, right now, are making poor choices.

    But you're probably right: men are just more comfortable with their mothers. There's nothing wrong the system; there couldn't be, because it's designed by women, for women!
    Actually in most cases men dominate the design of every day life. It's silly to assume otherwise. Obviously that trend is changing and I do think it makes men nervous because they have been the majority for so long. They are threatened. And I don't think you understood what I meant by the comfort men have at home. But really it was more anecdote then anything, but on average I would say a daughter and mother are at each others throats where boys and mothers aren't. Comfort has a lot to do with where you live, and how long you stay.
    "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." ~Bertrand Russell

  6. #6
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    Re: Hey, Young Man, What's Wrong With You?

    Yep, all the kneejerking and sly insults I expected.

    Women are oppressed? Men's fault!
    Men are oppressed? Men's fault!
    The world is round? Men's fault!
    Anything? Men's fault!

    When your knees jerk like that, how do you walk?


    P.
    "The intelligence and facts are being fixed around the policy."
    head of MI6

    "The Emory University study proves beyond a doubt that politicians and their acolytes - are lying morons."

    "We must make clear to the Germans that the wrong for which their fallen leaders are on trial is not that they lost the war, but that they started it."
    Justice Jackson Nov. 21, 1945, Nuremberg

  7. #7
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    Re: Hey, Young Man, What's Wrong With You?

    Who is giving a knee jerk reaction? Societies problems are caused by society which includes all genders. No gender is more at fault for the problems but genders do exaggerate problems but that does not mean they hold the full blame.
    "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." ~Bertrand Russell

  8. #8
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    Re: Hey, Young Man, What's Wrong With You?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pibs
    "This message is hidden because Jamie is on your ignore list."
    All your missing is " Nah Nah Boo Boo, I Can't hear you!"
    On the same account as Mothers and Sons having closer relationships we could say, that a childs greatest influence and role model is the parent of the same gender. A child typically follows the examples of the parent that is the same gender. If the father is absent or lazy the boy child is more likely to not know what to do with himself, or follow in the same direction..such as being catered to, and allowing the mother to continue to take care of all his needs.
    But of course that would be wrong...Cuz we all know women suck and are single-handedly responsible for all social decay.
    Last edited by tinkerbell; October 12th, 2006 at 05:59 PM.

  9. #9
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    Re: Hey, Young Man, What's Wrong With You?

    Let's stop for a moment and ask ourselves honestly, what would our reaction be if the genders were reversed?

    Why, you reckon, would young women still be at home with or return to live with their parents?

    Take Jane Doe, 29 years old, has returned home and living with her parents.

    Why?


    Tip: you get PC bonus points if you can squeeze blaming some man into your answer


    P.
    "The intelligence and facts are being fixed around the policy."
    head of MI6

    "The Emory University study proves beyond a doubt that politicians and their acolytes - are lying morons."

    "We must make clear to the Germans that the wrong for which their fallen leaders are on trial is not that they lost the war, but that they started it."
    Justice Jackson Nov. 21, 1945, Nuremberg

  10. #10
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    Re: Hey, Young Man, What's Wrong With You?

    I fled home at the age of 17 and have never had a desire to live with my mother. (nor I suspect would she have any desire to have me as a roomie)..........however I have seen situations that seemed to work well. many times a woman "needs" a man around to perform tasks that many women have never learned to perform for themselves.
    A woman with a grown son at home could well be a situation where both have much to gain. The man can save his money for his future while at the same time the mother can save money for her future that might have had to be used to pay a plumber, mechanic, carpenter, etc;.......(I can see how that might be more convenient to live with one's mother as opposed to getting a call on a staurday evening about toilet problems and then having to drive 100 miles to use a plumber's snake....(DON'T GO THERE SYL!)..... :O)
    When the power of love becomes stronger than the love of power, there will be peace..........jimi hendrix.

  11. #11
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    Re: Hey, Young Man, What's Wrong With You?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie
    Who said that women are oppressed in all that you list?
    You wouldn't have to tax your mouse's scroll button very much to find the google hits.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie
    Child support aside, you have to be married before a woman is granted alimony and in most states you have to be married for a significant amount of time, and women also pay alimony and child support. It might not be at the same rate, but it isn't only males paying those costs. And of course, no man should ever pay for his responsibilities. But we already had this debate.
    Don't know what states you are used to, but no-fault divorce doesn't have a critical mass of time spent in marriage to be viable.

    Women don't pay alimony nearly as much as men. Same with child support.

    Most of the time, it IS only males paying the costs.

    Men should have to pay for their responsibilities. But women shouldn't get to hold all the trump cards.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie
    Any evidence to back that up?
    Just look at the methodology. Busywork constitutes a large portion of the grade. Boys are not good at busywork. They are skilled at comprehension, which is why they test very well, but that doesn't count for much anymore.

    Additionally, the feminization of boys takes place at a very young age. No roughousing during recess. Raise your hand. Be nice. No "boys only" clubs. No "Girls suck" shirts--but "Boys suck" shirts are A-OK!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie
    Yep, looking at the rates.

    http://www.moreland.k12.ca.us/Discov...ropout_rk.html

    Gender: It appears that boys and girls do not significantly differ in dropout rates. However, they seem to drop out for different reasons: Girls are most likely to drop out of school due to pregnancy and marriage, while boys are more likely to drop out to seek employment. Additionally, boys are twice as likely to dropout as girls due to behavioral difficulties
    Hmm...behavioral difficulties...almost as if they don't fit into the system very well...

    I know that at my high school, the girls outnumbered the guys 2 to 1 in all the AP and CP classes. Almost half of the boys in my freshman class had dropped out by senior year. Girls graduated with Highest honors almost 2x more than boys.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie
    And every other link that I found is telling me the samething. Care to show where you read that the rate is usually 100%-150% higher because I am not finding it.
    http://www.census.gov/population/pop...000/chap08.pdf

    The rate was 5.2 percent for boys and. 3.9 percent for girls.
    5.2 / 3.9 yields a dropout rate 133% higher for boys than girls. That's slightly higher than my previously hypothesized average.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie
    That actual death rate is higher, but attempts by girls are more frequent. Either way teenage suicide is very disturbing.
    Suicide "attempts" aren't really attempts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie
    Which is the fault of the parents. Not the school districts, and not feminists. Men, when they realize they aren't prepared, can prepare themselves by attending school, and becoming a grown up and wearing big boy pants.
    Jamie, we pay the schools to educate our children and to help prepare them for the real world. The parents are failing, yes--which I already noted--but the schools are failing as well. And it sure as hell isn't because they're trying to help boys too much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie
    So it appears women value education where it seems men don't place a high value on it. Look at drop out rates. Men most likely drop out to work. Women stick with it and are getting the higher paying and better jobs. It's all about life choices. Apparently more men, right now, are making poor choices.
    You've got it partially right. When the schools become hostile enough to males and masculinity, boys will flee. But I guess they just need to man up and take the hits, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie
    Actually in most cases men dominate the design of every day life. It's silly to assume otherwise.
    Call me silly, then, because I do. Women constitute 52% of the population, which means that they have political control. Women have more legal rights than men. Women enjoy greater leniency in the legal system. Women can sue for sexual harrassment at the drop of a hat.

    How, exactly, do men dominate anything?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie
    Obviously that trend is changing and I do think it makes men nervous because they have been the majority for so long. They are threatened. And I don't think you understood what I meant by the comfort men have at home. But really it was more anecdote then anything, but on average I would say a daughter and mother are at each others throats where boys and mothers aren't. Comfort has a lot to do with where you live, and how long you stay.
    Since when have women been a minority? They've controlled over 50% of the votes for over a half century.
    If I am capable of grasping God objectively, I do not believe, but precisely because I cannot do this I must believe. - Soren Kierkegaard
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  12. #12
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    Re: Hey, Young Man, What's Wrong With You?

    Don't know what states you are used to, but no-fault divorce doesn't have a critical mass of time spent in marriage to be viable.
    Sure it does. I have previously been married, had a no fault divorce and alimony was never brought up because the time in the marriage was so minute that no judge in their right mind would have ordered it. Look at any state law surrounding alimony and things like time spent in the divorce, capability to earn money, and assets are all considered.

    Women don't pay alimony nearly as much as men. Same with child support.
    No one is disputing that.

    Most of the time, it IS only males paying the costs.
    Bull crap. It isn't like a child support check is going to cover all the childs expenses.

    Men should have to pay for their responsibilities. But women shouldn't get to hold all the trump cards.
    Women don't hold all the trump cards. Children do. With regards to alimony..if the woman was earning more, and was generally worth more she would owe her ex spousal support.


    Just look at the methodology. Busywork constitutes a large portion of the grade. Boys are not good at busywork. They are skilled at comprehension, which is why they test very well, but that doesn't count for much anymore.

    Right. So no evidence. Just your thoughts. I guess high schools went through a drastic change these past five years I have been out. Then again I believe every child in school should have an IEP to tap into the best way to teach them.

    Additionally, the feminization of boys takes place at a very young age. No roughousing during recess. Raise your hand. Be nice. No "boys only" clubs. No "Girls suck" shirts--but "Boys suck" shirts are A-OK!!!
    God forbid little boys are taught manners. Raise your hand? How horrible! I guess you prefer having savage monkeys running around, speaking out of order, and punching eachother on the playground. And since when has the boyscouts been put out of business? There are boy only clubs, and there are girl only clubs, and if guys want to make shirts that say "women suck" go for it. It's stupid just like the boy sucks t-shirts are. And if you want to live in a world that there aren't t-shirts that are degrading to women, then go on with your bad self.

    I know that at my high school, the girls outnumbered the guys 2 to 1 in all the AP and CP classes. Almost half of the boys in my freshman class had dropped out by senior year. Girls graduated with Highest honors almost 2x more than boys.
    I don't doubt that in your area and in other areas that the statistics are a bit higher with regards to boys dropping out of school. And no doubt that would color your view point. But for example, the school I went to, it was very rare that a child would drop out. It was looked down upon, and they didn't want to shun their parents. So they stuck it out. I can think of maybe two people who dropped out and I lived in a very large school district. I am sure there were more, but it was a very small percentage overall.

    Jamie, we pay the schools to educate our children and to help prepare them for the real world. The parents are failing, yes--which I already noted--but the schools are failing as well. And it sure as hell isn't because they're trying to help boys too much.
    To a certain extent schools do educate our children to be prepared for the real world. But, I think the majority of blame rests with the parents. If you know your school is lacking and you do nothing about it, it speaks volumes about the parents, and maybe the shouldn't have had children if they weren't going to raise them. But how are we to prepare them for the world if we want separate clubs, and not teaching them manners, because that's "feminization". Boys can't get ready for the world if we don't expect something out of them. And if we don't teach them (and girls) basic manners such as raising your hand, being nice, not rough housing to extremes, and not segregate the sexes into different clubs, they aren't going to be prepared.

    Hmm...behavioral difficulties...almost as if they don't fit into the system very well...
    Like I said earlier I firmly believe each child should have their own IEP. One size doesn't fit all.

    You've got it partially right. When the schools become hostile enough to males and masculinity, boys will flee. But I guess they just need to man up and take the hits, right?
    Of course not. Boys do deserve to be treated equally ect... Again, to me this goes down the parental line. The parent allows the child to drop out. They allow their child to fail. Instead of helping them pick up the pieces they allow the child to give up. If they allow the child to give up something so fundemental in life, the child is learning that following through, and working hard isn't something he or she has to do. It's just setting these kids up to be single welfare parents, and not to mention uneducated.

    Call me silly, then, because I do. Women constitute 52% of the population, which means that they have political control. Women have more legal rights than men. Women enjoy greater leniency in the legal system. Women can sue for sexual harrassment at the drop of a hat.
    Not necessarily. You are assuming that all of those women vote. The actual population of women, compared to women who do vote, I am sure is very different.

    How, exactly, do men dominate anything?
    What's the percent of women CEO's?
    What's the percent of women in high political power? ect...

    Since when have women been a minority? They've controlled over 50% of the votes for over a half century.
    I didn't realize 50 years is a long time while looking at the entire picture.
    "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." ~Bertrand Russell

  13. #13
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    Re: Hey, Young Man, What's Wrong With You?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie
    Bull crap. It isn't like a child support check is going to cover all the childs expenses.
    No, but it will cover a good deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie
    Women don't hold all the trump cards. Children do. With regards to alimony..if the woman was earning more, and was generally worth more she would owe her ex spousal support.
    ...assuming that he got custody of the child, which, considering that the mother is better off financially, is not very likely. Unless she sexually abuses her kids. Well, and if she's like really, really mean to the judge too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie
    Right. So no evidence. Just your thoughts. I guess high schools went through a drastic change these past five years I have been out. Then again I believe every child in school should have an IEP to tap into the best way to teach them.
    ???

    No evidence? I didn't think that you'd actually dispute the fact that boys tend to take tests better than girls, so that minimizing the role of actual comprehension in grading is going to disparately affect boys.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie
    God forbid little boys are taught manners. Raise your hand? How horrible! I guess you prefer having savage monkeys running around, speaking out of order, and punching eachother on the playground. And since when has the boyscouts been put out of business? There are boy only clubs, and there are girl only clubs, and if guys want to make shirts that say "women suck" go for it. It's stupid just like the boy sucks t-shirts are. And if you want to live in a world that there aren't t-shirts that are degrading to women, then go on with your bad self.
    I don't mind teaching manners. I mind rigorously leeching the masculinity out of children for fear that they'll be "violent" or "brutish".

    If we're going to have freedom of speech, then women shouldn't expect special treatment if they're going to fling s**t at men.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie
    I don't doubt that in your area and in other areas that the statistics are a bit higher with regards to boys dropping out of school. And no doubt that would color your view point. But for example, the school I went to, it was very rare that a child would drop out. It was looked down upon, and they didn't want to shun their parents. So they stuck it out. I can think of maybe two people who dropped out and I lived in a very large school district. I am sure there were more, but it was a very small percentage overall.
    And my point about boys dropping out in much higher rates than girls stands.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie
    To a certain extent schools do educate our children to be prepared for the real world. But, I think the majority of blame rests with the parents. If you know your school is lacking and you do nothing about it, it speaks volumes about the parents, and maybe the shouldn't have had children if they weren't going to raise them. But how are we to prepare them for the world if we want separate clubs, and not teaching them manners, because that's "feminization". Boys can't get ready for the world if we don't expect something out of them. And if we don't teach them (and girls) basic manners such as raising your hand, being nice, not rough housing to extremes, and not segregate the sexes into different clubs, they aren't going to be prepared.
    When a 6 year old boy gets in trouble for sexual harrassment because he "touched" a girl on her bottom--like he knew what the hell he was doing!--it's gone too far. While girls are content to sit, read, and listen, boys get pumped full of Ritalin instead of being allowed to run around and excercise.

    I don't mind instructions in polite manners.

    And parents are the most responsible for their kids. But until the stigma on homeschooling goes away, parents will feel pressured to send their kids to uncaring, dysfunctional schools for 6 hours a day.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie
    Of course not. Boys do deserve to be treated equally ect... Again, to me this goes down the parental line. The parent allows the child to drop out. They allow their child to fail. Instead of helping them pick up the pieces they allow the child to give up. If they allow the child to give up something so fundemental in life, the child is learning that following through, and working hard isn't something he or she has to do. It's just setting these kids up to be single welfare parents, and not to mention uneducated.
    That's just great. Public school is such a hostile environment that your kid drops out? HIS fault, and his parents' fault. Instead of fixing the problem, they just gotta suck it up, apparently. Let's not look at how to improve the schools so that people don't want to drop out; let's just blame it on the children.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie
    Not necessarily. You are assuming that all of those women vote. The actual population of women, compared to women who do vote, I am sure is very different.
    lol

    You can't complain about not having control merely because your group elects not to wield theirs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie
    What's the percent of women CEO's?
    What's the percent of women in high political power? ect...
    What's the percentage of women vs. men graduating from college? It favors the women.

    What's the percentage of women vs. men entering college? It favors the women.

    How long before the evil patriarchy is toppled? Not long.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie
    I didn't realize 50 years is a long time while looking at the entire picture.
    The entire picture of what? The history of the universe?

    Women have constituted a majority since before they were enfranchised. Since then, they have only themselves to blame for not electing a female President, more female Senators, etc., etc.--because we all know that having a vagina or having a penis is somehow a qualification for being a Senator; we certainly wouldn't want to have to look at their actual character!
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    Re: Hey, Young Man, What's Wrong With You?

    Quote Originally Posted by Clive
    No, but it will cover a good deal
    Depends on the circumstances. A guy who makes $10.00/hour isn't going to be paying much. Maybe a couple hundred dollars a month.

    I don't mind teaching manners. I mind rigorously leeching the masculinity out of children for fear that they'll be "violent" or "brutish".
    In the examples you listed I don't understand how that's "rigorously leeching the masculinity out of children", if I was a school admin I wouldn't want children rough housing because I need to think about how the parents will react. If that kid breaks their arm because I allowed rough housing, with the sue people happy these days I would be petrified that the school would face serious consequences.

    If we're going to have freedom of speech, then women shouldn't expect special treatment if they're going to fling s**t at men.
    What special treatment are women asking for? If you're talking about having loans for minorities, that include women, yes that's bull crap.

    When a 6 year old boy gets in trouble for sexual harrassment because he "touched" a girl on her bottom--like he knew what the hell he was doing!--it's gone too far. While girls are content to sit, read, and listen, boys get pumped full of Ritalin instead of being allowed to run around and excercise.
    I agree children, in general, are over medicated. Other healthy alternatives aren't found for the children, like diet, and less TV which is a major factor in the way a child behaves. As far as sexual harrassment? Yes, that's a bit of a reach, but the child should at the very least be given a firm lecture on what is and isn't appropriate...and yes it boggles my mind that a six year old doesn't understand what an inappropriate touch is.

    And parents are the most responsible for their kids. But until the stigma on homeschooling goes away, parents will feel pressured to send their kids to uncaring, dysfunctional schools for 6 hours a day.
    Homeschooling isn't going to cure everything, and to be honest isn't realistic in todays society. Not because of the stigma attached to homeschooling, but for pure financial reasons.

    That's just great. Public school is such a hostile environment that your kid drops out? HIS fault, and his parents' fault. Instead of fixing the problem, they just gotta suck it up, apparently. Let's not look at how to improve the schools so that people don't want to drop out; let's just blame it on the children.
    If the parents do nothing to remedy the situation, yes I put full blame on them. If it's an issue of the school being a hostile enviroment, which hasn't been established, then parents need to take that up with whoever they can. If it's still not fixed, they can look into private schools, private instruction, homeschooling, online school ect... To simply allow a child to drop out of school is irresponsible and unforgiveable. End of story. You are your childs advocate... ACT LIKE IT. Don't allow a crummy school get the better of you. There are always options.

    You can't complain about not having control merely because your group elects not to wield theirs.
    I am not complaining. I think you and Pibs have done a fine job of that in this thread already.

    What's the percentage of women vs. men graduating from college? It favors the women.
    Because women are finishing what they started. If a man drops out of college it is usually his fault and no one elses. I don't feel bad for people who don't have an education when there are multiple ways to obtain one.

    What's the percentage of women vs. men entering college? It favors the women.
    Then maybe men need to step up to the plate and get an education.

    Women have constituted a majority since before they were enfranchised. Since then, they have only themselves to blame for not electing a female President, more female Senators, etc., etc.--because we all know that having a vagina or having a penis is somehow a qualification for being a Senator; we certainly wouldn't want to have to look at their actual character!
    I have no issues that a woman hasn't been elected because of her merits. I do think that the majority of America isn't ready for one. There's a stigma attached to women. But it will happen soon enough. Maybe not in my lifetime but hopefully our children's lifetime.
    "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." ~Bertrand Russell

  15. #15
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    Re: Hey, Young Man, What's Wrong With You?

    First off I think you are looking at alimony in a short sighted way. Here in the state of Florida you have to have been in a marriage for over ten years. Next alimony is tax deductible for the spouse that pays it and is taxed as earned income to the spouse that rcvs it. Alimony was and still is more commonly paid in situations where the one spouse has had income, 401k's ( they usually take with them in a divorce) education and the majority of opportunity in career and education (earning potential) and the other spouse has been the caregiver or supported the spouse through getting a degree. I personally know a handfull of women paying alimony, but do not know of any men that are.
    Back in the day when women usually didn't work and provided for the home, and there wasn't the opportunity for them to create a savings or get an education or career, alimony was more common. There are still conditions where alimony is paid, esp after a lengthy marriage, where one spouse has not had the same opportunities or sacrificed them for the other spouse.
    http://www.divorceinfo.com/alimony.htm

    I think these men against women, women against men arguments are REALLY tiredsome. To blame an entire gender on the faults or shortcomings of another is really idiotic. Last I checked, we are all responsible for our own actions & choices starting at the age of 18.
    futhermore.........
    There are just as many anti woman sentiments out there as male...anyone remember No fat chicks..or another favorite, Never trust anything that bleeds for 7 days and doesn't die..
    There are just as many opportunity for men as there are for women.The opportunities might not be the same, but men and women are not the same.Men and women tend to excel in different things.
    However I do believe the sexes are slightly jumbled,and perhaps that has to do with all the catching up women have done, and changes within the jobforce and balancing of career and family. Issues that were not issues only 2 generations ago.

    As long as there are Men and Women there will be the battle of the sexes, but that really doesn't have ANYTHING to do with the topic at hand.
    The question to me is have men become more dependent, are genetics changing? is the specie evolving or has society changed that much.Men are no longer the hunter's or head of household? Or are we just raising spoiled,lazy and dependent adults?

  16. #16
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    Re: Hey, Young Man, What's Wrong With You?

    I think that Clive has a point when it comes to the education system. Classes to tend to favor homework as more important than tests because of the idea that "everyone should be able to get an A". I think comprehension of the material is far more important that how much work you do to acheive that comprehension. While I don't have evidence currently that girls tend to benefit over boys from this system, I can say that from experience, it seems that girls are better at doing homework and worse at tests than boys. If an educational system is biased towards one gender, one should expect that that gender does better, and since more women enter college than men (I don't know about the college drop out rate), I would probably attribute that in part to the fact that our secondary schooling system is biased towards girls.

    Jaime, I expect every person to take responsibility for their actions, both men and women, but I don't think that it is fair to favor one gender over the other and then blame the gender that was not favored for doing worse. Clive pointed out that girls are permitted to wear "boys suck" shirts and boys aren't permitted to wear "girls suck" shirts (something I've found even though he's from Oregon and I'm from Wisconsin), you said "God forbid little boys be taught manners". That completely missed the point. Why shouldn't little girls be taught those manners as well?

    When he pointed out that there's a higher rate of college entrance and exit for girls, you said " Then maybe men need to step up to the plate and get an education." Maybe it's not all their fault. If the system is biased against them, should they be expected to enter college at the same rate as men? Or is it that women don't have the same ability to "step up the plate" that men have and thus must have a system favored for them with men expected to take up the slack? I'm not saying that women are inferior...in fact, I'm asking that they not be treated as if they need more help. I want the system to be fair to both genders. Shrugging that off and blaming all the inequality of results on men is not sound, in my opinion.

    Now, you do have a point when you point out that most of those in power (CEOs, politicians, etc.) are men, but perhaps you could try to find a reason for that. Perhaps there is a corporate and political culture that favors men...instead of telling men to pick themselves up by the bootstraps while not giving the same message to women, you can try to find the structural problems that would cause the disparities. I don't think it is fair to give one gender special treatment in one area just because the other gender enjoys benefits in another. The desire should be to remove both inequalities of opportunity rather than try to make them "balance out", because they really don't.
    孟柏民
    Formerly Neverending (for all you old-timers)

  17. #17
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    Re: Hey, Young Man, What's Wrong With You?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pibs
    Yep, all the kneejerking and sly insults I expected.

    Women are oppressed? Men's fault!
    Men are oppressed? Men's fault!
    The world is round? Men's fault!
    Anything? Men's fault!

    When your knees jerk like that, how do you walk?


    P.
    *violins playing*

    Interesting......the government is ran by the majority of men isn't it, which by the way make the laws in our country, including the ones that 'mictims' gripe about. Whose fault is that???

    Must be hard to walk with three legs, isn't it?
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  18. #18
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    Re: Hey, Young Man, What's Wrong With You?

    I can only offer my own experience. I live at home with my parents at the age of 20 because I am attending college just a few miles away, don't have a job during school, and both my parents and I both would rather I live here than pay thousands of unnecessary dollars to live a short distance away for the sake of the dormitory experience.

  19. #19
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    Re: Hey, Young Man, What's Wrong With You?

    I was thrown out at 18, but I would have left anyway because I spent most of my time at my girlfriends house. I ended up sharing an apartment with a male friend of mine. Bad mistake. Roomies are so uncool, especially when you want the apartment to yourself - there's no privacy.

    As far as females moving out sooner than men - I don't know if that's a trend or not. I will say that I see more women doing jobs previously dominated by men (like FedEx delevery, etc.). I would say whether we are prosperous as a nation has alot to do with the economics of moving out at an earlier age - whether male or female.
    Last edited by Snoop; March 31st, 2006 at 04:48 PM.
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    Re: Hey, Young Man, What's Wrong With You?

    Quote Originally Posted by sylouette
    *violins playing*

    Interesting......the government is ran by the majority of men isn't it, which by the way make the laws in our country, including the ones that 'mictims' gripe about. Whose fault is that???

    Must be hard to walk with three legs, isn't it?
    The fact that men have a majority in the top government jobs does not mean that men are favored in court or that the educational system, which is run by governmental beaurocracy is biased towards men. Perhaps lawmakers are swayed by the fact that a larger part of their constituency are feminists than masculists. As such, by making concessions to feminists, they are able to keep their jobs with a remarkable 98% re-election rate at the federal level.

    Now, I think that there are plenty of good points that you could be making now, but you aren't making them. For instance, you could start by looking at some of what Clive has posted and try to debunk it or show why it is only a partial truth.


    EDIT: I think I can think of another reason that men are living at home later than women. Men tend to marry younger women and women tend to marry older men. Thus, if a couple gets a house of their own after they marry and both live with their parents until then, you will find that men live with their parents longer on average, and thus the rate of men living with their parents will be higher.
    孟柏民
    Formerly Neverending (for all you old-timers)

 

 
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