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  1. #1
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    The Big Questions

    Are solved. We just don't like the answers, and prefered it when they were still items to ponder.

    Where do we go when we die? Oblivion
    What's our purpose on earth? Making babies and living.

    How did we get here? Being the only one still being worked on.

    I assume much debate will be had about my answers, but I still content they are the answers!

  2. #2
    ODN's Crotchety Old Man

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    Re: The Big Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Turtleflipper View Post
    Where do we go when we die? Oblivion
    I prefer to say "the same place we were before we were born."

    Quote Originally Posted by Turtleflipper View Post
    What's our purpose on earth? Making babies and living.
    I disagree. We have no preordained or divine 'purpose'. We simply are. Our 'purpose' is what we personally make of it. Making babies and living? Meh. It happens.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turtleflipper View Post
    How did we get here? Being the only one still being worked on.
    Do you mean how did humans come to be, or how did the universe come to be? To the former, evolution. To the latter, like you said, they're still working on it (as they are the former).

  3. #3
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    Re: The Big Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Turtleflipper View Post
    Where do we go when we die? Oblivion
    Oblivion could be anywhere.

    What's our purpose on earth? Making babies and living.
    Everyone has a different purpose. Not everyone is capable of making babies.

    How did we get here? Being the only one still being worked on.
    If we are works in progress, and we are still being worked on, then we still have a chance of going somewhere else after we die. We may have come from someplace else.

    The Big Questions

    Are solved. We just don't like the answers, and prefered it when they were still items to ponder.
    The big questions are not solved. You prefer to have items to ponder or you wouldn't be pondering. If you are not pondering, then you are preaching.
    Last edited by Snoop; September 22nd, 2006 at 08:57 AM.
    While laughing at others stupidity, you may want to contemplate your own comedic talents. (link)
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  4. #4
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    Re: The Big Questions

    Turtleflipper - Are those opinions based on COMPLETE KNOWLEDGE, or the limits of what can 'scientifically' prove?
    "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." - Anais Nin.
    Emitte lucem et veritatem - Send out light and truth.
    'Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt' - Julius Caesar (rough translation, 'Men will think what they want to think')
    Kill my boss? Do I dare live out the American dream? - Homer Simpson.

  5. #5
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    Re: The Big Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Dionysus View Post

    I prefer to say "the same place we were before we were born."
    Bah, tOmato, toe-MAto

    Quote Originally Posted by Dionysus View Post
    I disagree. We have no preordained or divine 'purpose'. We simply are. Our 'purpose' is what we personally make of it. Making babies and living? Meh. It happens.
    Everything in us is designed to 1) survive and 2) reproduce. From a purely physical sense, I think that's the extent of our purpose.
    Divinity isn't involved.

    The below text has been automerged with this post.


    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop View Post
    The big questions are not solved. You prefer to have items to ponder or you wouldn't be pondering. If you are not pondering, then you are preaching.
    Well, we can debate and I can be defeated. You do have recourse snoop

    The below text has been automerged with this post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop View Post
    Oblivion could be anywhere.
    Oblivion can be anywhere, but it is still oblivion. Nothingness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop View Post
    Everyone has a different purpose. Not everyone is capable of making babies.
    But what where you build to do? What is everyone built to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop View Post
    If we are works in progress, and we are still being worked on, then we still have a chance of going somewhere else after we die. We may have come from someplace else.
    Spirituality is or it isn't. We are physically and mentally changing yes, but the fundemental question of "Is there life after death?" I doubt will change answers with age.

    The below text has been automerged with this post.

    Quote Originally Posted by FruitandNut View Post
    Turtleflipper - Are those opinions based on COMPLETE KNOWLEDGE, or the limits of what can 'scientifically' prove?
    FruitandNut, they are based on the best evidence avaliable. What are your answers based on? I mean realistically? You believe in a god with almost no provication beyond the belief's acceptability in mainstream society, yet when all answers point to No, we should still express doubt? Hey, if you have a counter-evidence that gives us a new, more likely theory, fill us in. Until then, it makes sense to go with the theory that has the most evidence.
    Last edited by Turtleflipper; September 22nd, 2006 at 09:24 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  6. #6
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    Re: The Big Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Turtleflipper View Post
    Until then, it makes sense to go with the theory that has the most evidence.
    Quantity of evidence =/= quality of evidence. If a theory had evidence, it wouldn't be a theory - it would be fact.
    While laughing at others stupidity, you may want to contemplate your own comedic talents. (link)
    Disclaimer: This information is being provided for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only.

  7. #7
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    Re: The Big Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop View Post
    Quantity of evidence =/= quality of evidence. If a theory had evidence, it wouldn't be a theory - it would be fact.
    We have no valid counter theory, we have oodles of good evidence for science theory, at this stage, I'm going to wager on the side of science. Might change my bet if new and startling evidence for any other thoery comes out, but until then, the most logical and correct course seems to be SCIENICE! In all it's depressing, ego-deflating glory.

  8. #8
    ODN's Crotchety Old Man

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    Re: The Big Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Turtleflipper View Post
    Bah, tOmato, toe-MAto
    No, toe-MAH-toe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turtleflipper View Post
    Everything in us is designed to 1) survive and 2) reproduce. From a purely physical sense, I think that's the extent of our purpose.
    Then what you mean by 'what is our purpose' is 'what is our function', yes?

  9. #9
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    Re: The Big Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Dionysus View Post

    Then what you mean by 'what is our purpose' is 'what is our function', yes?
    Yeah. Physically, our function is to live and reproduce. Philosophy, or after we've accomplished those two things, we have no purpose whatsoever.

  10. #10
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    Re: The Big Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Turtleflipper View Post
    Yeah. Physically, our function is to live and reproduce.
    It think it's a stretch to say even that. To say that something has function implies design and design implies an intelligent creator. I'm more inclined to say that we have no intended function or purpose. We simply are, just like everything else in existence. It's simply our sense of self-awareness that compels us to assign more grandiose terms to ourselves such as 'meaning' or 'purpose'. We need to feel important for some reason.

  11. #11
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    Re: The Big Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Dionysus View Post
    It think it's a stretch to say even that. To say that something has function implies design and design implies an intelligent creator. I'm more inclined to say that we have no intended function or purpose. We simply are, just like everything else in existence. It's simply our sense of self-awareness that compels us to assign more grandiose terms to ourselves such as 'meaning' or 'purpose'. We need to feel important for some reason.
    I think it is quite the opposite. It is our self awareness which masks our purpose - which is to survive as a species. The ability to survive is the inherent quality that started life and well as continues it. There is something in our proteins that causes us to propagate those proteins. I don't believe there is a species on the planet whose goal is not to propagate their gene pool.
    Only what can happen does happen. ~Watchmen
    When the Standard is defined you will know how right or wrong you are.

  12. #12
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    Re: The Big Questions

    I think the issue is design = intellegence.

    This is not true. The design for surival and reproduction came about not by intent, but because everything that did't want to screw and live has died off, and we're all that's left.

  13. #13
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    Re: The Big Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by snackboy View Post
    I think it is quite the opposite. It is our self awareness which masks our purpose - which is to survive as a species. The ability to survive is the inherent quality that started life and well as continues it. There is something in our proteins that causes us to propagate those proteins. I don't believe there is a species on the planet whose goal is not to propagate their gene pool.
    Agreed, but I don't think this phenominon qualifies as 'purpose' in any philsophical sense. I still maintain that any sense of self-awareness or purpose is strictly a matter-driven thing that has no true "meaning".

  14. #14
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    Re: The Big Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Dionysus View Post
    No, toe-MAH-toe.
    No, it is TOM-AH(long 'a')-TOE

    You like potato and I like potaeto,
    You like tomato and I like tomaeto;
    Potato, potaeto, tomato, tomaeto!
    Let's call the whole thing off!
    "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." - Anais Nin.
    Emitte lucem et veritatem - Send out light and truth.
    'Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt' - Julius Caesar (rough translation, 'Men will think what they want to think')
    Kill my boss? Do I dare live out the American dream? - Homer Simpson.

  15. #15
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    Re: The Big Questions

    Without God there is no, "purpose".
    Purpose is like "Value". Things only have the value that you put on it, and is situational. People only have "value" if there is a higher being, to place "Value" on us.
    When Jesus Died on the Cross for our sins, he set our value very high. To be called "son's of the most High", is indeed a high calling. Without God we have no inherent value, as evidenced by abortion.
    No God = No value/no purpose.
    I apologize to anyone waiting on a response from me. I am experiencing a time warp, suddenly their are not enough hours in a day. As soon as I find a replacement part to my flux capacitor regulator, time should resume it's normal flow.

  16. #16
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    Re: The Big Questions

    There was a discussion somewhere (havin' a hard time findin' it) about whether or not analytical philosophy, and thus continental, was "dead" or "finished". They felt that W. V. Quine and Wittgenstein had pretty much solved most of philosophy's riddles. In a way, they were right but in a more accurate way, they were, in the long run, absolutely wrong. Several of the Big Questions have not be answered yet. Mostly because we haven't even started asking most of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028
    Without God there is no, "purpose".
    Purpose is like "Value". Things only have the value that you put on it, and is situational. People only have "value" if there is a higher being, to place "Value" on us.
    When Jesus Died on the Cross for our sins, he set our value very high. To be called "son's of the most High", is indeed a high calling. Without God we have no inherent value, as evidenced by abortion.
    No God = No value/no purpose.
    I hate to ask this since ODN is chock-full of religious debates as it is, but justifying the fact that we have value and purpose because of God and Jesus does not prove that without Jesus and God there would be no purpose or value to our existence. Your conclusion of "without god there is no purpose" is in the negative form, where as your argument is in the positive, "god = purpose/value".

    Quote Originally Posted by Dionysus
    I prefer to say "the same place we were before we were born."
    My dad's gonads?
    I rebel - therefore we exist.

  17. #17
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    Re: The Big Questions

    My form may be poor, for that I apologize.
    All I am saying is that, things don't have purpose in and of themselves.
    Take a car for instance, does it have a purpose? Sure, now take away all living life, does it still have a purpose? No.
    You can say that we could have purpose without God/Jesus, however you still have to point to a higher being that gives that purpose.
    Without that higher being, we just are. We exist, no purpose, no goal that needs reaching, no value.
    It is like a race with no beginning or end. Can it really be called a race? What is the point? What is the value of being "First"?

    I am specifically targeting inherent value/purpose. Maybe I a missing something. How can one have value apart from God/high power?
    I apologize to anyone waiting on a response from me. I am experiencing a time warp, suddenly their are not enough hours in a day. As soon as I find a replacement part to my flux capacitor regulator, time should resume it's normal flow.

  18. #18
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    Re: The Big Questions

    That works only under a hierarchical/foundationalist viewpoint. Eventually, everything is justified by a bedrock purpose - God. However, using a different theory, like coherentism (theory of knowledge, actually), where everything is justified by another thing. Or considering we're talking about purpose, everything derives purpose from one another. The car needs a driver in order to have purpose and the driver needs a car in order to have purpose. I don't know which one is right - both have their problems - but that nonetheless is a framework that doesn't require a primary source for purpose.

    I subscribe to the view that we may exist without God's approval and our purpose in life is to continue that existence. That's what all life does, strive to continue to exist.
    I rebel - therefore we exist.

  19. #19
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    Re: The Big Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by PAINTIST
    However, using a different theory, like coherentism (theory of knowledge, actually), where everything is justified by another thing. Or considering we're talking about purpose, everything derives purpose from one another.
    That doesn't make for an "Absolute" purpose. I feel that human purpose/my purpose is absolute, or basically non-extant.
    Quote Originally Posted by PAINTIST
    I subscribe to the view that we may exist without God's approval and our purpose in life is to continue that existence. That's what all life does, strive to continue to exist.
    That doesn't answer "WHY"? Without a "Why" there is no purpose.
    Again it really seems that without God, we are all stuck in a race, with no beginning and no end. In such a race, what does it matter how many people are ahead of you?
    If we achieve immortality, under your logic we would have achieved our purpose. However if that is all we had..... In other words, if all there was in all of existence, was just your consciousness. do you think you would feel fulfilled?
    I apologize to anyone waiting on a response from me. I am experiencing a time warp, suddenly their are not enough hours in a day. As soon as I find a replacement part to my flux capacitor regulator, time should resume it's normal flow.

  20. #20
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    Re: The Big Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    That doesn't make for an "Absolute" purpose. I feel that human purpose/my purpose is absolute, or basically non-extant.
    Yeah, but that was the point. It's an alternative theory so of course it doesn't fit yours. There are problems with arbitrariness in each theory. Yours requires an arbitrary rule that purpose requires a God-source, mine arbitrarily says that purpose is a given trait that is justified by and derived from other given traits.

    That doesn't answer "WHY"? Without a "Why" there is no purpose.
    And... "Why" do you say that? And which "Why" question are we talking about? Why are we here to strive to exist or Why does continuing to exist work as a unifying purpose?

    Again it really seems that without God, we are all stuck in a race, with no beginning and no end. In such a race, what does it matter how many people are ahead of you?
    Cycle of life, eh? Is this supposed to be a bad thing?

    If we achieve immortality, under your logic we would have achieved our purpose. However if that is all we had..... In other words, if all there was in all of existence, was just your consciousness. do you think you would feel fulfilled?
    Well aren't you doing the same? Isn't spending eternity in heaven analagous to immortality with your consciousness?

    Anyways, the problem here is that "continuing to exist" is not an "absolute" purpose. If it were, it wouldn't be similar to coherentism. Even if we attain immortality, which we won't so it certainly isn't a 'goall', we would still derive purpose (possibly new purpose) and continue to be fulfilled. For instance, with our immortality we may feel that it is our purpose to find all knowledge - solve all these stupid impractical riddles that plagued us when we were mortals and had better things to do.
    I rebel - therefore we exist.

 

 
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