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  1. #1
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    Post The problem with God

    Our world is at a crossing point where must decide if the God we keep saying we believe in is any good for us anymore. Perhaps the time has come to say goodbye to them. I say "them" because there seems to be so many versions of the same God...all of them bad.
    There's the Patriarchal God. He’s more of an abusive stepfather than a God, actually. He grants you lots of free will then punishes you mercilessly if you choose any of the fun things. Kind of like an abusive parent tells you make dinner then beats you because you were 5 minutes late. This God gave us lots of free will then regularly punishes us if we use it. But He loves us and only sentences us to eternal damnation and fire because he loves us. Gee Dad thanks a lot.

    Then there's the Dictator God. Unbridled anger and death to any "infidel" who doesn't believe in him exactly the way he says you should. He’s got lots of duly authorized representatives to tell us that. Just ask them, they’ll tell you. And if you should have a problem with that, the Dictator God will direct his Holy Soldiers (the Republican Guard of Heaven) to fly airplanes into buildings and strap explosives to their bodies all in his Righteous Name. And if you’re an especially murderous thug who dies in the process of your particular killing spree, you get rewarded in Heaven with 72 virgins. (Actually I think they’re getting robbed in the whole deal. 72 virgins won’t last very long in eternity. So you’d have to pace yourself and only bang one virgin every 100 million years just to make it last awhile. Doesn’t seem quite fair after all the great work you did for Dictator God.)

    Let's not forget about the Hypocrite God. He is the God of Life, provided you aren't an abortion provider, then he's the God of Wrath. He doesn’t approve of alcohol consumption, unless you’re a catholic, then he’s OK with it. He’s OK with coffee, unless you’re a Mormon, then he hates it. If you love signing and dancing, especially in church services He loves it, unless the church is a Jehovah’s Witness Temple, then he hates it. He has no problem with gambling provided it’s Casino Night at St. Anthony’s but if it’s Caesar’s Palace, then you just angered him. He’s all for having sex to make babies but he expressly forbids you to enjoy or to do it any reason other than making babies. Senior citizens really get screwed in this deal.

    Then there's the God of Condemnation. This God hates everyone except Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson and Pope John Paul II. Actually, if you ask Pat and Jerry, God hates the Pope too. But he doesn't stop there. He also hates feminists, liberals, tree huggers, pot smokers, people who enjoy sex (for other than procreative reasons), pagans, wiccans, pro-choice activists, Muslims, Jews, pornographers, artists, Hindus, Hollywood elitists (except Mel Gibson), Democrats, and ESPECIALLY HOMOSEXUALS. Boy, he really hates gay people. The day after the World Trade Center/Pentagon disasters, ol' Pat and Jerry each commented on how the whole disaster could be blamed on feminist, liberals and homosexuals. Funny, I always thought terrorists were responsible. I would have never thought Osama Bin Laden was a feminist, liberal drag queen. But he must be. Because according to Pat and Jerry, Condemnation God only talks to them.
    But he talks to the Pope too. If you are a politician who champions the constitution over Vatican dogma, he will cut you off from Condemnation God through a nifty little rite called excommunication. All lines of communication are severed between you and God. Basically, God will no longer be taking your calls. But to be precise, he never really did. According to Catholic teaching, all calls must be placed through the AT&T (Almighty Telephone & Telegraph) switchboard in Vatican City or an authorized call station at your local church. Unfortunately, the excommunication thing only valid for liberal politicians. It doesn’t apply to pedophile priests.

    Now I have used generalizations and a little satirical humor to illustrate a point. Maybe, just maybe, the problem isn’t that God created us in His image. The problem is we created God in ours.

    There is another God out there. The real God. And you're never gonna believe who he is.
    Last edited by Lightkeeper; April 30th, 2004 at 10:00 PM.

  2. #2
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    riiiiiight, okay, so there are differences between religions, so there HAS to be some unwritten code that says when two faiths say different things the "house of cards" comes tumbling down and it is all invalidated. It sounds to me that your saying that religion is an inconveinience to you because of these "rules". If you dont find it to fit you thats fine, what you do is what you do, ITs just done so in such a highty satirical manner that its slightly irritating (not saying thats wrong, its good to get under peoples skin) Oh, and ask most believers with some sense and ole Jerry and Pat, well, Im not going to honor that with a response.
    "ATF? What exactly does that stand for?"
    "Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms"
    "So, what else does you sell?"

  3. #3
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    That's not what I am saying at all. What I am saying is that religion has not evolved and that it no longer serves us as it should. Humanity needs to rethink not only our vision of who God is but also our relationship with God and each other.
    Look at what is happening to humanity with religious hatred and the atrocities commited in the name of religious piety and tell me we are not in trouble.

  4. #4
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    Oh, my deepest regrets, I just came from a 2 hour Debate with people(Baptists) who were being critical of other christians (Catholics) and I was still furious about how two peoples within the same "faith" can do that.......I apologize, again, a HUGE apology
    "ATF? What exactly does that stand for?"
    "Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms"
    "So, what else does you sell?"

  5. #5
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    Please don't apologize. Sometimes my satire can come off as sarcasm. Your two hour debate demonstrates what I wrote. Everyone is so sure that they are keepers of the "One True Faith" that they are willing to attack anyone else who may have a different idea or vision of God and their relationship to God. To them, their faith demands it and that is why we are in trouble.
    It makes you wonder...what has hurt them so bad that the only way they can feel there faith is safe is to attack someone else's. If that is the case, they have no real faith to speak of. But more importantly, who is teaching or encouraging them to do it.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDem
    Oh, my deepest regrets, I just came from a 2 hour Debate with people(Baptists) who were being critical of other christians (Catholics) and I was still furious about how two peoples within the same "faith" can do that.......I apologize, again, a HUGE apology
    Can you please share a bit of that experience with us?.....This thread I think is appropriate or you might want to start another....


    Offtopic perhaps answer with a PM --
    Do you still consider yourself "Catholic" or do you consider yourself "catholic" with a small "c"? Have you checked out the "Catholic Corner" Thread in the Religion section...That would be another good place to post on these subjects.

  7. #7

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    Wonderful post. One question though. Did you really mean to say "you're never gonna believe you he is."? That's the only part that really confused me.

  8. #8
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    Actually, I meant to say "You're never gonna believe who he is."

  9. #9

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    Then your post is absolutely perfect. Please edit it and make that correction, because you and I both know it makes all the difference in the world.

    Did you really write all that? It's very touching.

  10. #10
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    Yes, I did. Sort of in between dinner and laundry which I am still in the middle of. I've been looking for a venue to debate and discuss this topic for a while. I've avoided standard chat rooms because of a lack of decorum. I'm happy you enjoyed it.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightkeeper
    Yes, I did. Sort of in between dinner and laundry which I am still in the middle of. I've been looking for a venue to debate and discuss this topic for a while. I've avoided standard chat rooms because of a lack of decorum. I'm happy you enjoyed it.
    Forgive me but 10 years editing ...and old habits die hard...I still read the paper with a red pen in my hand....
    Last edited by Spartacus; April 30th, 2004 at 11:04 PM.

  12. #12
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    Here's my edit for post 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightkeeper
    Our world is at a crossing point where we must decide if the God we keep is any good anymore. Perhaps the time has come to say goodbye to them.

    Them?

    Yes, "them" because there seems to be so many versions of God these days.

    There's the abusive stepfather God. He grants you lots of free will then punishes you mercilessly if you choose any of the fun things. But He loves us and only sentences us to eternal damnation and fire because he loves us. Thanks Dad.

    Then there's the God that dictates war and murder. Unbridled anger and death to any "infidel" who doesn't believe in him exactly the way he says you should. He’s got lots of duly authorized representatives to tell us that. Just ask them, they’ll tell you...with fire, lead, cordite and blood.

    Let's not forget about the Hypocrite God. He is the God of Life, provided you aren't an abortion provider, then he's the God of Wrath. He doesn’t approve of alcohol consumption. He’s OK with coffee, unless you’re a Mormon, then he hates it. If you love singing and dancing...you're in the Devil's grasp for that...unless you sing and dance in Church every Sunday, then that's OK...unless of course you're one of those old-fashioned evangelical types. He’s all for having sex to make babies but he expressly forbids you to enjoy doing it.

    Then there is God the Creator. He created everyone and everything...but hold on here, He did not create atheists, jews, fags, infidels, niggers, spics, camel jockeys, wasps, polacks, tax collectors, whores, drug addicts, politicians, fat people, or teen agers...how could He be responsible for creating such unworthy creatures? These folks belong to the Devil.

    Maybe... just maybe though... the problem isn’t that God created us in His image. The problem is we have created God in ours.

    There is another God out there waiting to be Discovered. He's been there all along...Waiting for us to toss aside our egos, pride and prejudice. Waiting for us to stop shouting and fighting...waiting for the day when we listen more than we talk. When we love more than we hate.

    Waiting for us to behave like He has been telling us all along.
    SPart edit 1

  13. #13
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    Well, Spart, there is not much to tell. And I guess I wasnt being completely honest about who was debating...it was actually three baptists and one of which who is converting to the Catholic Faith and the other two who were being critical of the way Catholics do things....Saints, Transubstantiation, the pope, mary's "place", and such. And to be honest it made me sick, I just believe that; that energy could be better spent doing something...oh hell...I dont know...constructive? Oh well...
    "ATF? What exactly does that stand for?"
    "Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms"
    "So, what else does you sell?"

  14. #14

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    Light, your affiliation says "other". What is the "other"?

  15. #15
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    I grew up in both the Catholic and Jewish faiths. I have also studied Buddism, Taoism, various pagan faiths among others. I was always raised to find my own connection to God as it best fit me and my truth. Thirty years of studies taught me some wonderous experiences. So I guess my affliation would really be "all of the above" as well "as none of the above."
    When we affiliate ourselves with a certain group, we seperate ourselves from others. That's why the world is in the mess it's in. We need to change our beliefs that we are seperate from one another. Likewise, we need to change our false belief that we are seperated from God.

  16. #16
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    LK:

    That's the first time I have ever read my own feelings from someone else's hand. Great post.
    But if you do not find an intelligent companion, a wise and well-behaved person going the same way as yourself, then go on your way alone, like a king abandoning a conquered kingdom, or like a great elephant in the deep forest. - Buddha

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightkeeper
    We need to change our beliefs that we are seperate from one another. Likewise, we need to change our false belief that we are seperated from God.
    Is this not contradictory? You are saying that one should embrace *all* beliefs but at the same time you say one should *not* embrace the belief that we are seperate from God.
    ~ le prime di di mont la vacja no fas formadi ~

  18. #18
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    No, that's not what I said.

    "I" said I have embraced many faiths because that is my truth and my expression of love for God. Each person needs to find their expression of love. For some it is the Orthodox Catholicism. For others, Reform Judaism and others it may be Islam, Buddism, Wicca, Sevnth Day Adventist...etc.

    However, what a wonderful world we would live in if we embraced our other brothers and sisters of humanity who are expressing their love of God not as outsiders from another faith but as fellow pilgrims on the path to universal truths. If someone expresses a faith different from yours, you don't have to agree with it. But you do have to honor it. It doesn't matter how you worship God as long as your experience is the love of God. Nothing can seperate us from the Father/Mother because we are all the expression of His/Her love.

    Quote Originally Posted by sjjs
    Is this not contradictory? You are saying that one should embrace *all* beliefs but at the same time you say one should *not* embrace the belief that we are seperate from God.

  19. #19
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    Your post was very well written. I especially relate well to things you said later about embracing all religions. I think we can make the distinction that some people are religious, some people are spiritual, some people are neither religious nor spiritual, and some people are religious and spiritual. I truly think religion and spirituality have very little connection to each other, other than that religion *can* lead you to be spiritual, but it doesn't always. And being spiritual *can* lead you to be religious, but it doesn't always. And we can't forget that many people subrcribe to their own personal religion. Just because they aren't affiliated with a specific world religion doesn't make them not religious or not spiritual. I even consider Atheism a religion.

    I don't know that I agree with all of your assessments of God, though. I felt like your first God was more the description of the 2000+ yr old God. I don't know many people who feel God is wrathful anymore. Mostly because it would make us feel too ashamed of ourselves...and who wants to feel that yucky feeling? Also, it would make us fearful...and who wants to feel that yucky feeling?

    I don't think we can say all versions of God are bad. Having versions of God is at least better than having no God at all. While I think some atheists function just great in the world, I wouldn't want to imagine an entire world of them, disconnected from something beyond themselves. Even though belief in God works against us when terrorists bang their planes into buildings in His name, it also works for us by the multitudes of people who would never commit such an act.

    Ultimately, many people believe in a loving God. I don't know that your description of the "Catholic" God was accurate and it sounded rather dated. The Catholic religion actually writes into it's teachings that we are to accept all religions as being valid for the people who believe in them. The Catholic religion also doesn't teach that you have to go through someone else to get to God (authorized personnel), that you can pray directly to him. The problem with the Catholic God is that Catholicism is intrenched in a person from childhood on, so that even they end up forgetting the definition.

    I was recently baptized Catholic, after having embraced Buddhism, Taoism, Christianity, studying Muslim and Judaism, etc. Basically, I did my shopping. The bottom line I came to is that it isn't the world views of God that matter, but my own. When I embrace that fact, I can worship God anywhere...a Buddhist Temple, a Catholic Pew, a Mormon church, a Synagogue.
    Souls of the animal kingdom: eagle, fox, bottle-nose dolphin, octopus, house cat. Okay, let's jump this jump. -- Rod Kimble

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightkeeper
    (Actually I think they’re getting robbed in the whole deal. 72 virgins won’t last very long in eternity. So you’d have to pace yourself and only bang one virgin every 100 million years just to make it last awhile. Doesn’t seem quite fair after all the great work you did for Dictator God.)
    u really underestimate god, these virgins are always virgin, they bang them on a heaven's monday and on tuesday voila, virgins again.
    do not believe in something because u heard it , do not believe in something because it is talked about and rumored by many, do not believe in something because u found it written in ur holy books, do not believe in something merely on the authority of ur teachers and elderly but after observation and analysis if u find something that agrees with logic and is conductive to the good and benefit of one and all then believe in it and live up to it
    buddha

 

 
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