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  1. #21
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    Re: Nothing In Biology Makes Sense Except In the Light of Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Hyde
    Transitional Forms are totally absent from the fossil record at the basic level of phylum and rare if present at all in class. Only after basic body plans are well established are fossil transitions observed.

    Schroeder, Science of God, pg 10

    Personally, it sounds somewhat contradictory to what's he saying. There's no transitional fossils, but there's transitional fossils, but they only appear in smaller classifications of species, so they don't count.
    Its not really contradictory if you think about it. Even in evolutionary models such as punctuated equalibrium which call for fairly rapid evolutionary change, we are still talking about change on the course of millions of years. These changes occur on a individual and species level not on the phylum level. Any observation of transition will therefore be on the same level at which the changes are occuring, i.e. the level of the individual and species. Thats why in order to view transition we must first have complete the body plans of species and observe the small changes going on.
    I typically cite original research papers and reviews that are available only to a personal or institutional subscriptional. If you wish a PDF copy of the papers I cite, send me a request.

  2. #22
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    Re: Nothing In Biology Makes Sense Except In the Light of Evolution

    Also, in terms of mammals and fish, the transitional forms are anphibians and then reptiles. All vertebrates have at least a few ancestors that were fish. Fish of course descended from fish, amphibians descendend from fish, reptiles descended amphibians which descended from fish, mammals descended from reptiles which descended from reptiles which descended from amphibians which descended from fish, and birds descended from therapods (a group of dinosaurs including T. rex, though T. rex was not an ancestor of birds) which descended from reptiles which descended from amphibians which descended from fish. So, if you want a transitional fossil between fish and mammals, it will either be a fish, a fish-amphibian "hybrid", an amphbian, an amphibian-reptile "hybrid", a reptile, a reptile-mammal "hybrid", or a mammal. Some of those "hybrids" may not exist because of a clear-cut line in our classification system or a lack of fossilization, but there are definitely are transitions.
    孟柏民
    Formerly Neverending (for all you old-timers)

  3. #23
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    Re: Nothing In Biology Makes Sense Except In the Light of Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by chadn737 View Post
    Its not really contradictory if you think about it. Even in evolutionary models such as punctuated equalibrium which call for fairly rapid evolutionary change, we are still talking about change on the course of millions of years. These changes occur on a individual and species level not on the phylum level. Any observation of transition will therefore be on the same level at which the changes are occuring, i.e. the level of the individual and species. Thats why in order to view transition we must first have complete the body plans of species and observe the small changes going on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Neverending View Post
    Also, in terms of mammals and fish, the transitional forms are anphibians and then reptiles. All vertebrates have at least a few ancestors that were fish. Fish of course descended from fish, amphibians descendend from fish, reptiles descended amphibians which descended from fish, mammals descended from reptiles which descended from reptiles which descended from amphibians which descended from fish, and birds descended from therapods (a group of dinosaurs including T. rex, though T. rex was not an ancestor of birds) which descended from reptiles which descended from amphibians which descended from fish. So, if you want a transitional fossil between fish and mammals, it will either be a fish, a fish-amphibian "hybrid", an amphbian, an amphibian-reptile "hybrid", a reptile, a reptile-mammal "hybrid", or a mammal. Some of those "hybrids" may not exist because of a clear-cut line in our classification system or a lack of fossilization, but there are definitely are transitions.
    AH, I get it. I should've paid more attention in my biology classes.
    But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.
    1 Peter 3:15-16

  4. #24
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    Re: Nothing In Biology Makes Sense Except In the Light of Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Hyde View Post
    AH, I get it. I should've paid more attention in my biology classes.
    Was it a 'mixed' biology class? Could be your attention was more akin/closer to creating the next generation and not engaged with looking at the past ones!
    "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." - Anais Nin.
    Emitte lucem et veritatem - Send out light and truth.
    'Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt' - Julius Caesar (rough translation, 'Men will think what they want to think')
    Kill my boss? Do I dare live out the American dream? - Homer Simpson.

  5. #25
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    Re: Nothing In Biology Makes Sense Except In the Light of Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by FruitandNut View Post
    Was it a 'mixed' biology class? Could be your attention was more akin/closer to creating the next generation and not engaged with looking at the past ones!
    No, my attention was on two things: Syl, and how much my arabian-resembling bio teacher looked like a little pakistani Arnold from Happy Days. I can't tell you how many days he'd bobble in and I'd start singing softly to myself, "Sunday Monday Happy Days...Tuesday Wednesday Happy Days."
    But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.
    1 Peter 3:15-16

  6. #26
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    Re: Nothing In Biology Makes Sense Except In the Light of Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Hyde View Post
    No, my attention was on two things: Syl, and how much my arabian-resembling bio teacher looked like a little pakistani Arnold from Happy Days. I can't tell you how many days he'd bobble in and I'd start singing softly to myself, "Sunday Monday Happy Days...Tuesday Wednesday Happy Days."
    Hey...that song makes me think of you, Hyde!


    Sunday, Monday, Happy Days.
    Tuesday, Wednesday, Happy Days.
    Thursday, Friday, Happy Days.
    Saturday, What a day,
    Groovin' all week with you.

    These days are all,
    Happy and Free. (Those Happy Days)
    These days are all,
    Share them with me. (oh baby)
    Goodbye grey sky, hello blue.
    There's nothing can hold me when I hold you.
    Feels so right, it can't be wrong.
    Rockin' and rollin' all week long.
    These days are all,
    Share them with me. (Those Happy Days)
    These days are all, Happy and Free.
    These Happy Days are your's and mine, Happy Days.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo
    The problem is that Protestant demoninations tend to be much less logical than Catholicism.
    And who came up with this theory?

    Isn't Biology the class where you get to disect animals? I got to cut into a frog and watch the teacher do the same to a monkey.

    Okay, I'm leaving now.
    Hyde and Sylouette
    Married
    June 30, 2012

  7. #27
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    Re: Nothing In Biology Makes Sense Except In the Light of Evolution

    thats more of the reply i was looking for
    "What's so wrong about mentioning how attractive she is? That said, i don't think "Begin East Euro Fap" is an appropriate way to say shes attractive."

  8. #28
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    Re: Nothing In Biology Makes Sense Except In the Light of Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Gonzo View Post
    Well said Stealth...even the Vatican recognizes evolution...

    Although that's not that suprising because the Catholic religion has always produced very smart thinkers...
    Your claim is patantly illogical. Religion has very little to do with intelligence.

    There are times when you state plainly logical, agreeable things, Gonzo, and there are times when you just make me go "What in the hell?" This is one of those times.
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." --Voltaire

  9. #29
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    Re: Nothing In Biology Makes Sense Except In the Light of Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by GoldPhoenix View Post
    Your claim is patantly illogical. Religion has very little to do with intelligence.
    What about like Aquinas, Grotius, Vittoria, Suarez, et al., and the other Scholastics

    you don't think these people made valuable contributions to the history of thought?

    I can understand why you would hate someone like Augustine...but Aquinas...comeon man...he's da bomb.
    "If you wish to know how libertarians regard the State and any of its acts, simply think of the State as a criminal band, and all of the libertarian attitudes will logically fall into place." -Murray Rothbard

    "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." -Henry David Thoreau

  10. #30
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    Re: Nothing In Biology Makes Sense Except In the Light of Evolution

    Your claim is patantly illogical. Religion has very little to do with intelligence.
    Random bigoted statements with no support behind them are not generally accepted in a debate.

    There are times when you state plainly logical, agreeable things, Gonzo, and there are times when you just make me go "What in the hell?" This is one of those times.
    In this instance, it is because you're views towards religion are characteristic of a bigot. Many, if not most, of history's greatest thinkers were religious after some fashion.
    Feel free to PM me if you have questions about Austrian economics or Anarcho-Capitalism as a political system.

    There's nothing in the street
    Looks any different to me
    And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye
    And the party on the left
    Is now the party on the right
    And their beards have all grown longer overnight

    Meet the new boss, same as the old boss

  11. #31
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    Re: Nothing In Biology Makes Sense Except In the Light of Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Neverending View Post
    Evolution has been supported by the existence of transitional forms in the fossil record,
    Fossil Record? There is no fossil record .

    Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
    re·cord
    –verb (used with object)
    1. to set down in writing or the like, as for the purpose of preserving evidence. (no one sat down and wrote up the fossil ''record'')
    2. to cause to be set down or registered: to record one's vote.
    3. to state or indicate: He recorded his protest, but it was disregarded.
    4. to serve to relate or to tell of: The document records that the battle took place six years earlier. (The fossil "record'' is not a documentation.)
    5. to set down or register in some permanent form, as on a seismograph.
    6. to set down, register, or fix by characteristic marks, incisions, magnetism, etc., for the purpose of reproduction by a phonograph or magnetic reproducer.
    7. to make a recording of: The orchestra recorded the 6th Symphony.
    –verb (used without object) 8. to record something; make a record.
    –noun record 9. an act of recording.
    10.the state of being recorded, as in writing(The fossil "record'' is not writen) 11. an account in writing or the like preserving the memory or knowledge of facts or events.
    12. information or knowledge preserved in writing or the like.
    13. a report, list, or aggregate of actions or achievements: He made a good record in college. The ship has a fine sailing record.
    14. a legally documented history of criminal activity: They discovered that the suspect had a record.
    15. something or someone serving as a remembrance; memorial: Keep this souvenir as a record of your visit.
    16. the tracing, marking, or the like, made by a recording instrument.
    17. something on which sound or images have been recorded for subsequent reproduction, as a grooved disk that is played on a phonograph or an optical disk for recording sound (audiodisk) or images (videodisk). Compare compact disk.
    18. the highest or best rate, amount, etc., ever attained, esp. in sports: to hold the record for home runs; to break the record in the high jump.
    19. Sports. the standing of a team or individual with respect to contests won, lost, and tied.
    20. an official writing intended to be preserved.
    21. Computers. a group of related fields, or a single field, treated as a unit and comprising part of a file or data set, for purposes of input, processing, output, or storage by a computer.
    22. Law.
    a. the commitment to writing, as authentic evidence, of something having legal importance, esp. as evidence of the proceedings or verdict of a court.
    b. evidence preserved in this manner.
    c. an authentic or official written report of proceedings of a court of justice.

    –adjective record
    23. making or affording a record.
    24. surpassing or superior to all others: a record year for automobile sales.

    My point is:
    There are facts and there are theories. How you use the facts to support your theory depends on your perspective.

    Ex.
    Fact--Fossils Theories---Evolution or Creationism

    Evolution say " Time is the key to fossils "
    Creation say "One world-wide flood made all the fossils"

    Time can create fossils and floods can creat fossils so both theories are plasible. Many factors may prove one wrong but one fact can not.
    JESUS LOVES YOU !!!

 

 
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