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Thread: Organ sales

  1. #1
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    Organ sales

    Most countries ban the sale of organs, saying that its legalisation would result in the exploitation of the poor. I, however, think that it should be legalised.

    I think it is presumptuous for us to make decisions on behalf of the poor. Organ sellers, whether rich or poor, are adults. They should be entitled to make decisions for themselves. If they feel that the benefits of selling their kidney outweigh the costs, they should be allowed to do so. We have no right to decide on their behalf and tell them that they cannot sell their own body parts because their bodies are sacred. Thus, even if the poor end up being “exploited” (which I disagree with and shall elaborate upon later), it will be entirely a result of their own free and informed choice.

    Furthermore, we must keep in mind that there is little incentive for anyone to donate their organs if monetary incentives are disallowed. Donating organs not only means that you lose an organ - it also takes time and entails certain risks. Without monetary incentives, there will always be a shortage of organs for those whose lives depend on them.

    On the other hand, from the perspective of the poor who are willing to sell their organs, the transaction is also beneficial to them. They must feel that the benefits from an infusion of cash is better than the intangible benefits (if any) of keeping a kidney, or else they wouldn’t participate in the transaction. The cash can be used to buy food, pay for their kids’ education, pay off loans, etc.

    So how is this exploitation? To take an extreme scenario, if organ trade was legalised, a poor person would have two choices - sell an organ to raise funds or starve to death. If organ trade was banned, the poor would only have one choice - starve to death. I contend that it is always far more sensible and humane to provide more choices, rather than eliminate some because of our presumptuous and parochial moral views. We have no right to dictate what other people can or cannot do to their own bodies.
    Last edited by Trendem; February 24th, 2007 at 09:54 PM.
    Trendem

  2. #2
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    Re: Organ sales

    Agreed. How is it "exploitation" to allow people to engage in voluntary transactions?
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  3. #3
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    Re: Organ sales

    In a world where survival is becoming easier (I know that's debatable) - there should be less of a need for organ transplants. At least I hope so.

    If I had the money, I would certainly want to go out and buy whatever organ was on the market and I probably wouldn't care where it came from (as long as it was legal). I refuse to sell my brain - it's too precious.

    If someone sells an organ, what's to prevent that same person suffering a decline in the quality of his or her life? Sure it's a personal decision, but these people can become mental health problems for society and a burden on the health care system (which is overburdened already).
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  4. #4
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    Re: Organ sales

    To legalise 'organ selling' would probably kindle something akin to 'Burke and Hare' entrepreneurial activity. They ended up 'short cutting' the accepted system.

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  5. #5
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    Re: Organ sales

    To take an extreme scenario, if organ trade was legalised, a poor person would have two choices - sell an organ to raise funds or starve to death. If organ trade was banned, the poor would only have one choice - starve to death.
    To take another scenario--which could actually take place in the real world, unlike your overly-simplified false dichotomy--a criminal could harvest the organs of an unwilling "donor" and sell it quite easily (perhaps doctoring a certificate)--unless we're going to only allow the government to harvest organs. Which is just a fantastic idea.
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    Re: Organ sales

    Another problem is that the demand would be higher than the supply until the price for organs reached a very high price and then only the wealthy could afford needed transplants. (Though for all I know the price of such an operation is already overly costly)
    A simple solution for that would be price caps. But I'm kind of a free-market kind of guy so I'm not fond of that.
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  7. #7
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    Re: Organ sales

    I have a partially used kidney for sale.

    Low miles, decent tread, great price.


    Oh wait this isnt a want ad? Dang.
    lol great thread!

  8. #8
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    Re: Organ sales

    Quote Originally Posted by CliveStaples View Post
    To take another scenario--which could actually take place in the real world, unlike your overly-simplified false dichotomy--a criminal could harvest the organs of an unwilling "donor" and sell it quite easily (perhaps doctoring a certificate)--unless we're going to only allow the government to harvest organs. Which is just a fantastic idea.
    Of course criminals will want to do that. But what are laws for? Victims of forced transplants will be able to charge these criminals in court. And in the first place, it isn't easy to harvest a person's organs illicitly. Indeed, it is far easier to kill someone than to perform a transplant.

    Just because something could prove an incentive to crime, doesn't mean it should be outlawed. If so, we should ban the wearing of expensive jewellery, arrest people for not locking their car doors, ban guns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by sbgtfJC View Post
    Another problem is that the demand would be higher than the supply until the price for organs reached a very high price and then only the wealthy could afford needed transplants. (Though for all I know the price of such an operation is already overly costly)
    A simple solution for that would be price caps. But I'm kind of a free-market kind of guy so I'm not fond of that.
    Well, then at least the wealthy benefit from more transplants, while the poor benefit from more money. At the current status quo, both rich and poor do not have any benefits.
    Trendem

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    Re: Organ sales

    But the middle class or whomever so to speak, would lose the benefit of reasonable organ transplant prices. (Assuming they aren't already outrageous.)

    Though, my argument about price caps is kinda not relevant since we already have a price cap....at zero.
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  10. #10
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    Re: Organ sales

    Quote Originally Posted by Trendem View Post
    Most countries ban the sale of organs, saying that its legalisation would result in the exploitation of the poor. I, however, think that it should be legalised.

    I think it is presumptuous for us to make decisions on behalf of the poor. Organ sellers, whether rich or poor, are adults. They should be entitled to make decisions for themselves. If they feel that the benefits of selling their kidney outweigh the costs, they should be allowed to do so. We have no right to decide on their behalf and tell them that they cannot sell their own body parts because their bodies are sacred. Thus, even if the poor end up being “exploited” (which I disagree with and shall elaborate upon later), it will be entirely a result of their own free and informed choice.

    Furthermore, we must keep in mind that there is little incentive for anyone to donate their organs if monetary incentives are disallowed. Donating organs not only means that you lose an organ - it also takes time and entails certain risks. Without monetary incentives, there will always be a shortage of organs for those whose lives depend on them.

    On the other hand, from the perspective of the poor who are willing to sell their organs, the transaction is also beneficial to them. They must feel that the benefits from an infusion of cash is better than the intangible benefits (if any) of keeping a kidney, or else they wouldn’t participate in the transaction. The cash can be used to buy food, pay for their kids’ education, pay off loans, etc.

    So how is this exploitation? To take an extreme scenario, if organ trade was legalised, a poor person would have two choices - sell an organ to raise funds or starve to death. If organ trade was banned, the poor would only have one choice - starve to death. I contend that it is always far more sensible and humane to provide more choices, rather than eliminate some because of our presumptuous and parochial moral views. We have no right to dictate what other people can or cannot do to their own bodies.
    I've always been a proponent of the idea that every man and woman should have full authority over their own bodies --if only their bodies are involved. Regardless of how effective or how ineffective this policy would be, I still support freedom over pure pragmatism.
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." --Voltaire

  11. #11
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    Re: Organ sales

    A few points. First, I (from shooting from the hip) agree. I think such a situation could be beneficial for both parties. If I were a very poor man and could barely feed my kid, I may be very tempted to sell an expendable body part for money to make sure my kid has a better life than I did. But the hows and whys of it would have to be settled.
    For instance, if I decided to sell a kidney could I put it out on Ebay? Obviously, for any such sell to take place under any circumstances would involve attorneys, (which puts a bad taste in my mouth) on both sides to be sure that all was done in a manner that served both parties equally.
    Also, if it were legal, why would poor people NOT auction off a body part to the highest bidder? It's what I would do. Where would be the empathy for the rich person? Say rich person A needs a kidney much worse than rich person B. But, what if rich person B was willing to offer twice the amount, or three times the amount as rich person A? Do you sell to person A because person B may not be as badly affected at that point or do you sell it to which ever one could cough up the most cash?
    While we are talking about it, why not open it up to the world. If that were the case there would be an endless line of people willing to sell a body part to another who needs it and can pay for it. Even then, if from another country there would have to be strict international laws and an international body to make sure some tyrant is not getting richer by subjugating the poor from there to forced sales.
    I also believe that any person wishing to sell an organ be declared mentally competent to make such a decision.
    But doctors make money from performing transplants. (the means) Hospitals make money from allowing a doctor to perform the operation and recovery of patient, (the place), why shouldn't the one with the needed body part be payed for their part in it as well? (the supply) It's how virtually all business is done. So I give it an uneasy okie dokie, but subsequent problems such as not being regulated enough would turn me away from any such practice.

    What about people put to death by the state? Should it be legal for them to sell their body parts so that any loved ones left in their life could benefit? Or should they be mandated to sell their organs with the money going to the victim or the victim's family? Just some thoughts, no real answers.
    sbgtfJC:
    the price for organs reached a very high price and then only the wealthy could afford needed transplants.
    It wouldn't have to be that way. The working class and poor could remain the beneficiary of "donated" organs from people who die just as they do now. Either their insurance would cover their costs or the state would. That's the way it is right now with the exception of rich people are also in line with all others. If rich people could buy their needed organs that would leave the donated ones for the poor and working class.
    Snoop:
    there should be less of a need for organ transplants.
    In time perhaps. As it is the demand FAR exceeds the supply.
    sbgtfJC:
    the price for organs reached a very high price and then only the wealthy could afford needed transplants.
    Actually, the working class with insurance could get it too.
    wanna:
    I have a partially used kidney for sale.
    Low miles, decent tread, great price.
    I have a questionable healthy kidney. I can't be sure it's 100% as it took quite the abuse in my earlier years. But ......Do I hear $5000! I got 5 can I get $10,000..........auctioneers would really profit eh?
    When the power of love becomes stronger than the love of power, there will be peace..........jimi hendrix.

 

 

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