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  1. #1
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    Prove God Exists.

    I have evidence that shows according to the bible he could not have existed. However I do not have evidence that shows beyond a shadow of doubt that he absolutely does not exist.

    I am in this thread laying the burden on our resident Theologians.




    PROVE HE EXISTS.

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    Re: Prove God Exists.

    My signature quote is so prophetic - it almost proves God's existance to me.

    Why would anyone need a bible to prove the existance of god?
    While laughing at others stupidity, you may want to contemplate your own comedic talents. (link)
    Disclaimer: This information is being provided for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only.

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    Re: Prove God Exists.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop View Post
    My signature quote is so prophetic - it almost proves God's existance to me.

    Why would anyone need a bible to prove the existance of god?
    Lol. True however as an atheist I get slammed every day because I do not see why a god matters, or that it is possible for him to exist.

    So as a thread I want to see who can prove he exists.

    Besides I don't insist he doesn't exist, I insist that it really doesn't matter. This question is just to see if anyone here can prove what they believe or even try as at least we as atheists do.

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    Re: Prove God Exists.

    There are many arguments for God's existence. One of them is the idea that it is impossible for something to come from nothing. That's magic. Theists don't believe magic. Only atheists do.
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  5. #5
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    Re: Prove God Exists.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    There are many arguments for God's existence. One of them is the idea that it is impossible for something to come from nothing. That's magic. Theists don't believe magic. Only atheists do.
    Actually that doesn't prove god exists, as there are several theories involving the absolute beginnings. And unfortunately none of them involve magic.

    Big bang,

    Constant state of being,


    etc.

  6. #6
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    Re: Prove God Exists.

    Constant state of being does not explain existence. It is refuted by the mere fact that the universe is in a constant state of 'cause and effect' aka 'event horizons'.

    Big Bang does not explain why/how/who the Big Bang in first place.

    Bring on the 'godless' theories, I need something to shoot at.
    "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." - Anais Nin.
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  7. #7
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    Re: Prove God Exists.

    Don't bother, Wanna. There have been many different permutations of this thread, challenging theists to provide concrete evidence for God's existence. None of them do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apok
    There are many arguments for God's existence. One of them is the idea that it is impossible for something to come from nothing.
    Oh really? Where did God come from then?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apok
    Theists don't believe magic. Only atheists do.
    That's kinda thick, coming from a person who believes that a cosmic Jewish zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so that he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.
    Last edited by Trendem; April 27th, 2007 at 11:20 PM.
    Trendem

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    Re: Prove God Exists.

    Apok:
    There are many arguments for God's existence. One of them is the idea that it is impossible for something to come from nothing. That's magic. Theists don't believe magic. Only atheists do.
    So does apply also for God, it's impossible for something like God to come from nothing. So from where/what did/do God from?(duh...my grammar).

    If it's said God do not nescessary come from something since it's prime cause so, "One of them is the idea that it is impossible for something to come from nothing." this term not nescessary work. Than it's make possible for other prime cause to occur.
    Dalai Lama:
    I believe the ultimate aim of all human beings is to obtain happiness and a sense of fulfillment. These objectives can be achieved through physical amenities and proper mental development, but the dominant and ultimate factor is the mental aspect. In order to achieve these objectives one must have knowledge about both mind and matter.

  9. #9
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    Re: Prove God Exists.

    Quote Originally Posted by wannaextreme View Post
    Actually that doesn't prove god exists, as there are several theories involving the absolute beginnings. And unfortunately none of them involve magic.

    Big bang,

    Constant state of being,


    etc.
    The Big Bang needed a cause. The mass didn't magically appear. Also, there is no such thing as a constant state of being in the natural universe.


    _________________________________ Post Merged _________________________________


    Quote Originally Posted by Trendem View Post
    Oh really? Where did God come from then?
    The context is that of "natural". God obviously, isn't "natural". All things natural, came from something.

    That's kinda thick, coming from a person who believes that a cosmic Jewish zombie
    I don't know any cosmic Jews, nor do I believe in zombies (I do love zombie movies however). Either you are thoroughly confused in general, confused about what thread you are in, or confused as to whom may have stated something that your reply would be relevant. In any event, it isn't looking good for magic believing atheists. You DO realize...that David Blaine doesn't REALLY levitate...right?

    who was his own father
    Nope, got that wrong too.

    can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh
    Wow...so much for the knowledge and expertise of ODN's resident atheists. Seems they have a lot more book learnin' to do. According to Christianity, all humans have an eternal soul (thus, will live forever).

    and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master,
    Telepathically? Either more misinformation or ignorance on your part. Which is it?

    so that he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity
    There is no such thing as an evil force in one's soul. That's silly. You make me giggle Trend.

    Hmmm...I'm starting to believe you are referring to some unknown religion. It definitely isn't Christianity. Either that, or you just don't possess the knowledge of that which you object to. And we all know what those types of folks are....

    because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.
    What is a rib-woman? What is this magic tree you speak of?

    Regardless, you insist that the supernatural cannot exist...whilst at the same time insisting that in the natural world...things can actually come from nothing. You denounce the supernatural, while at the same time, being its most ardent supporter and fan. This is why the atheist has more faith than any theist. I applaud your dogmatic, fundamentalist, faith...but it lacks any rationality. The atheist in this sense at least, is desperate to tap their heels and dream of a place where fairy tales can come true.

    Something coming from nothing. tsk tsk tsk. Please. Pull this leg, it plays "Jingle Bells".


    _________________________________ Post Merged _________________________________


    Quote Originally Posted by Nagasena View Post
    So does apply also for God, it's impossible for something like God to come from nothing. So from where/what did/do God from?(duh...my grammar).

    If it's said God do not nescessary come from something since it's prime cause so, "One of them is the idea that it is impossible for something to come from nothing." this term not nescessary work. Than it's make possible for other prime cause to occur.
    As explained above, the context of the statement is of the natural world. Obviously, that which is supernatural...isn't subject to natural law. The atheist insists that the natural law applies to all things natural, except when it comes to magic...then it's ok because then things can magically pop into existence from nothing.

    You don't believe in God. Fine. I don't believe in magic. I'll take a supernatural being and won't have the elitist mentality and ego that I am (as man) the most developed and advanced entity in existence...and you take magic. I'll stick with natural law, and you break it. I put my faith in the supernatural and that which is supported by reason...and you put yours in the illogical and magic.
    Last edited by Apokalupsis; April 28th, 2007 at 12:11 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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  10. #10
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    Re: Prove God Exists.

    No one can prove God exists. Neither can anyone prove that God doesn't.

    There is not sufficient evidence to support either claim.

    In answer to: "Prove God exists" well............... you can't.

    At least no one living can. Refering, of course, to the idea that once you die you know the meaning to life, the universe, and everything. (I already know what the meaning to life, the universe, and everything. It's, in the imortal words of deep thought: Forty two!)


    _________________________________ Post Merged _________________________________


    Quote Originally Posted by wannaextreme View Post
    I have evidence that shows according to the bible he could not have existed.
    out of interest, what evidence?
    Last edited by Swellips; April 28th, 2007 at 05:17 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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  11. #11
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    Re: Prove God Exists.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    The Big Bang needed a cause. The mass didn't magically appear. Also, there is no such thing as a constant state of being in the natural universe.
    Why, the big bang is something happening not in our universe and therefor its laws can't be applied to it, same argument for why God could be a first mover. And in addition who says where something can't simply exist, what proof do you make that assertion on, as it happens we have the proof of the universe it does, either God or it was simply there. And they were talking about the steady-state theory i think look it up i think it may have been renamed quasi-steady state or something.


    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    The context is that of "natural". God obviously, isn't "natural". All things natural, came from something.
    The same can be said of the big bang, and who says we have to have an alternate theory in God's place, what does it matter how he universe started, theres just as much evidence for a God as anything else, and the big bang has circumstantial evidence at the moment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    I don't know any cosmic Jews, nor do I believe in zombies (I do love zombie movies however). Either you are thoroughly confused in general, confused about what thread you are in, or confused as to whom may have stated something that your reply would be relevant. In any event, it isn't looking good for magic believing atheists. You DO realize...that David Blaine doesn't REALLY levitate...right?
    Well a bloke getting up from the dead genrally counts as a zombie right? thats what Jesus did, as for cosmic that was proably wrong, the world celestial would be better

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    Nope, got that wrong too.
    I know theists who say he was both God and the son of God making him his own father.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    Wow...so much for the knowledge and expertise of ODN's resident a38theists. Seems they have a lot more book learnin' to do. According to Christianity, all humans have an eternal soul (thus, will live forever).
    I thought hell was meant to be eternal death as opposed to eternal life?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    Telepathically? Either more misinformation or ignorance on your part. Which is it?
    Communicating to him through what you think and believe, yes telepathy seems applicable

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    There is no such thing as an evil force in one's soul. That's silly. You make me giggle Trend.
    You're right its in the sperm according to a Pope, cant remember which one though ill look it up if you like.


    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    Hmmm...I'm starting to believe you are referring to some unknown religion. It definitely isn't Christianity. Either that, or you just don't possess the knowledge of that which you object to. And we all know what those types of folks are....
    Yeah that sounded like christianity to me, maybe with one or two words tweeked yes like soul to sperm and cosmic to celestial.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    What is a rib-woman? What is this magic tree you speak of?
    A woman made from a rib, and the tree of knowlege, what else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    Regardless, you insist that the supernatural cannot exist...whilst at the same time insisting that in the natural world...things can actually come from nothing. You denounce the supernatural, while at the same time, being its most ardent supporter and fan. This is why the atheist has more faith than any theist. I applaud your dogmatic, fundamentalist, faith...but it lacks any rationality. The atheist in this sense at least, is desperate to tap their heels and dream of a place where fairy tales can come true.
    Okey ill tap my heels and wish there was a big loving man in the sky, who as a massive expanse of clouds where everything is perfect and happy, whaddya know theists did it first, so thats how they became theists.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    Something coming from nothing. tsk tsk tsk. Please. Pull this leg, it plays "Jingle Bells".
    God did it apparently


    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    As explained above, the context of the statement is of the natural world. Obviously, that which is supernatural...isn't subject to natural law. The atheist insists that the natural law applies to all things natural, except when it comes to magic...then it's ok because then things can magically pop into existence from nothing.
    Except when it comes to the things that put those laws up in the first place, if God is aloud to defy rules because hes outside the universe, then so can the start of the universe, its like trying to force the laws of your country on someone else. That and they can pop in to existence, ever heard of photons, thats not magic, just weird.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    You don't believe in God. Fine. I don't believe in magic. I'll take a supernatural being and won't have the elitist mentality and ego that I am (as man) the most developed and advanced entity in existence...and you take magic. I'll stick with natural law, and you break it. I put my faith in the supernatural and that which is supported by reason...and you put yours in the illogical and magic.
    Where did any atheist say he was the most developed being in existence, i certainley dont think its a fact, possible but by no means fact. and God DOESNT break those natrual laws, strange old world we have if he doesn't.
    -=]Eliotitus[=-
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    Re: Prove God Exists.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis
    The context is that of "natural". God obviously, isn't "natural". All things natural, came from something.
    God needs a cause too. Why is there a God rather than not? And if you're going to say "God is special 'cause he's supernatural" again, please explain why God being supernatural makes it impossible for him not to exist.
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    Re: Prove God Exists.

    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    God needs a cause too. Why is there a God rather than not? And if you're going to say "God is special 'cause he's supernatural" again, please explain why God being supernatural makes it impossible for him not to exist.
    Ghosts are supernatural, but they come from people who were alive. They have a cause. What makes a god exempt from a cause?
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    Re: Prove God Exists.

    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    God needs a cause too.
    Please support that.

    Why is there a God rather than not?
    Why are roses red and not turquoise? It just "is". Is "why" a contingent for necessity?

    However, one reason God exists, is because magic doesn't.

    And if you're going to say "God is special 'cause he's supernatural" again, please explain why God being supernatural makes it impossible for him not to exist.
    It isn't necessarily Him being supernatural that makes it impossible for Him to exist. In fact, I never once said it was impossible that God did not exist. It's the atheist who makes such elitists, omniscient claims like that ("It's impossible for God to exist"), not the theist.

    What I said, was essentially, it comes down to God or magic. You take magic, I take God.
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    Re: Prove God Exists.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    It isn't necessarily Him being supernatural that makes it impossible for Him to exist. In fact, I never once said it was impossible that God did not exist. It's the atheist who makes such elitists, omniscient claims like that ("It's impossible for God to exist"), not the theist.
    I don't make that claim. My atheism allows the possibility of a god. Please specify what kind of atheism you are targeting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    What I said, was essentially, it comes down to God or magic. You take magic, I take God.
    Well, seeing that lightning, earthquakes, and other natural phenomenon were once considered 'magic' or caused by a god, I don't see your point. And please don't make magic sound any more irrational than a god.
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    Re: Prove God Exists.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apok
    I don't know any cosmic Jews, nor do I believe in zombies (I do love zombie movies however). Either you are thoroughly confused in general, confused about what thread you are in, or confused as to whom may have stated something that your reply would be relevant. In any event, it isn't looking good for magic believing atheists. You DO realize...that David Blaine doesn't REALLY levitate...right?

    Nope, got that wrong too.

    Wow...so much for the knowledge and expertise of ODN's resident atheists. Seems they have a lot more book learnin' to do. According to Christianity, all humans have an eternal soul (thus, will live forever).

    Telepathically? Either more misinformation or ignorance on your part. Which is it?

    There is no such thing as an evil force in one's soul. That's silly. You make me giggle Trend.

    Hmmm...I'm starting to believe you are referring to some unknown religion. It definitely isn't Christianity. Either that, or you just don't possess the knowledge of that which you object to. And we all know what those types of folks are....

    What is a rib-woman? What is this magic tree you speak of?
    Stop feigning ignorance Apok. You believe in a god who is both the father, the son, and the Holy Spirit, who descended to earth as a mortal, died and rose again on the third day so that we can be cleansed of Original Sin which was due to Eve (who was made from Adam's rib) eating a fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. It is the most fantastic story ever, containing far more variables and improbabilities than even the "something coming from nothing" theory that you (falsely) accuse atheists of adopting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apok
    Regardless, you insist that the supernatural cannot exist...whilst at the same time insisting that in the natural world...things can actually come from nothing.
    That's a silly straw man, because atheists do not claim that something came from nothing. We admit that we do not know how the universe came about, and hope that science will explain it one day. Unlike Christians, who not only immediately assume that supernatural forces must be responsible, but further define this supernatural force very specifically as the God of the Bible.

    I would like to remind you that the thread asks you prove that God exists. So far all you have done is to assert that "something cannot come from nothing", while exempting God from this very law you propose. But even if we accept that something cannot come from nothing, how does that make the leap to becoming evidence for a full-fledged God, especially one as well-defined as the God of Christianity?

    You still have lots of work to do Apok. Get cracking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apok
    You denounce the supernatural, while at the same time, being its most ardent supporter and fan. This is why the atheist has more faith than any theist. I applaud your dogmatic, fundamentalist, faith...but it lacks any rationality. The atheist in this sense at least, is desperate to tap their heels and dream of a place where fairy tales can come true.
    Is this diatribe supposed to pass for an argument?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apok
    Please. Pull this leg, it plays "Jingle Bells".
    If I could have a penny for every clichéd, overused, and meant-to-be-witty-but-was-stale-five-years-ago riposte I encounter, I would be a millionaire by now. You could at least have chosen a different song, like "Joy to the World".
    Trendem

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    Re: Prove God Exists.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trendem View Post
    Stop feigning ignorance Apok. You believe in a god who is both the father, the son, and the Holy Spirit, who descended to earth as a mortal, died and rose again on the third day so that we can be cleansed of Original Sin which was due to Eve (who was made from Adam's rib) eating a fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. It is the most fantastic story ever, containing far more variables and improbabilities than the "something coming from nothing" theory that you falsely accuse atheists of adopting.
    More evidence of your lack of understanding a religion you object to.

    That's a silly straw man, because atheists do not claim that something came from nothing.
    You do by default. It isn't a strawman. Either something created it, or it didn't. In the natural world, something had to have created that something, ad infinitum, eventually, we get to the first cause. The atheist's position is fantastical and illogical. Magic doesn't exist.

    I would like to remind you that the thread asks you prove that God exists. So far all you have done is to assert that "something cannot come from nothing", while exempting God from this very law you propose. But even if we accept that something cannot come from nothing, how does that make the leap to becoming evidence for a full-fledged God, especially one as well-defined as the God of Christianity?
    Since when did the thread turn into "Prove that the Christian God exists?" All that was needed, was to provide at least one argument for the existence of God. That's been done. That's groovy if you wish to reject it, but the challenge has been met. Magic doesn't exist.

    You still have lots of work to do Apok. Get cracking.
    Obviously, you aren't qualified to make such an assessment.

    Is this diatribe supposed to pass for an argument?
    Just as your first post was. Hi Pot, seen Kettle lately?

    If I could have a penny for every clichéd, overused, and meant-to-be-witty-but-was-stale-five-years-ago riposte I encounter, I would be a millionaire by now.
    This assumes the aptitude to count that high.
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    Re: Prove God Exists.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    There are many arguments for God's existence. One of them is the idea that it is impossible for something to come from nothing. That's magic. Theists don't believe magic. Only atheists do.
    lol! The universe requires a cause, but God doesn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apok
    The context is that of "natural". God obviously, isn't "natural". All things natural, came from something.
    Prove that claim. What evidence do you have that the universe didn't exist forever? What evidence do you have that all natural things come from something? Thirty-odd years of experience observing one one billionth of the universe's area just doesn't cut it to make those types of macro-conclusions.

    We can't conclusively explain how the universe came into being. That's no reason to make unsupported assumptions based on the unproven premise that all natural things must have a supernatural cause.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apok
    What I said, was essentially, it comes down to God or magic.
    It comes down to making unsupported presumptions or admitting one doesn't know. I'll take the latter over living in my own disillusionment, thanks.
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    Re: Prove God Exists.

    Quote Originally Posted by starcreator View Post
    lol! The universe requires a cause, but God doesn't.
    lol! yeah!

    Prove that claim. What evidence do you have that the universe didn't exist forever?
    If the universe (or anything really) has a beginning, obviously, it didn't exist forever.

    What evidence do you have that all natural things come from something?
    Logic and available science. The atheist's position is that natural things can come from nothing. I merely reject that claim as 1) it is irrational, 2) there is no evidence for it, 3) I don't believe in magic.

    We can't conclusively explain how the universe came into being. That's no reason to make unsupported assumptions based on the unproven premise that all natural things must have a supernatural cause.
    You confuse the idea of not knowing everything, with not being able to know at least some things.

    It comes down to making unsupported presumptions or admitting one doesn't know. I'll take the latter over living in my own disillusionment, thanks.
    See above. magic does...not...exist.

    Obviously, you disagree. Very well, prove it.
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    Re: Prove God Exists.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    If the universe (or anything really) has a beginning, obviously, it didn't exist forever.
    Out of interest what makes you assume that all atheists think the big bang right, and disproving an atheist theory does not prove your God anyway

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    Logic and available science. The atheist's position is that natural things can come from nothing. I merely reject that claim as 1) it is irrational, 2) there is no evidence for it, 3) I don't believe in magic.
    Again we're back to those simple little photons, they do pop out of nowhere and can become electrons and their anti-particles, oh dear he we go again things DO come from nothing in nature. No magic involved.


    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    You confuse the idea of not knowing everything, with not being able to know at least some things.
    You don't seem to be backing up you know those things.


    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    See above. magic does...not...exist.

    Obviously, you disagree. Very well, prove it.
    Nor do infinitley powerful pixies in the sky
    -=]Eliotitus[=-
    "Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future"- Oscar Wilde

 

 
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